Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   JazzJackrabbit Community Forums » Open Forums » General Jazz Jackrabbit Talk

Gameplay Paradox

blurredd

JCF Member

Joined: Nov 2001

Posts: 1,896

blurredd is an asset to this forumblurredd is an asset to this forum

Nov 25, 2005, 07:58 PM
blurredd is offline
Reply With Quote
Gameplay Paradox

Suppose you want to make a level with a bonus warp that leads to a seeker powerup and full health. This bonus warp requires a lot of coins and therefore takes a while to access. The problem comes in when a skilled player successfully attains this bonus. He's skilled enough that he can do without the powerup, and with it he can prevent others from getting it and can create a lead for himself as well.

Without limiting or excluding the powerup and carrot, how can a system be made so that this bonus benefits the weaker players more than the skilled? If someone posts a solution, try to find another one.
__________________
D3
Extra. No CTO v0.75
Animating Tiles Properties.
ATB Contest. Scripting Language.
Gameplay Theories.
1UP. Pitfall. Desolation.
SC2.

Pyromanus

JCF Member

Joined: Sep 2002

Posts: 37

Pyromanus is doing well so far

Nov 25, 2005, 08:08 PM
Pyromanus is offline
Reply With Quote
triggersystem wich gives access to better or more stuff (ammo, carrot, ...) each time you die
Xobim

JCF Member

Joined: May 2005

Posts: 2,454

Xobim is doing well so far

Nov 26, 2005, 01:33 AM
Xobim is offline
Reply With Quote
You get extra coins each time you die. But I don't know if the coins get remembered when playing online...
__________________
Earth Mantra, for all your ambient music needs.
Sacrush

JCF Member

Joined: Feb 2004

Posts: 748

Sacrush is doing well so far

Nov 26, 2005, 01:44 AM
Sacrush is offline
Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzmusic
You get extra coins each time you die. But I don't know if the coins get remembered when playing online...
NO.
__________________
Extraterrestrials
White Rabbit

JCF Member

Joined: Aug 2001

Posts: 4,478

White Rabbit is doing well so far

Nov 26, 2005, 03:06 AM
White Rabbit is offline
Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyromanus
triggersystem wich gives access to better or more stuff (ammo, carrot, ...) each time you die
Yes, I remember Shine-o-rific Land where you could spend coins for a bonus warp to get an RF power-up, and some other goodies, or you could die several times and get them for free (because of a number of different start positions, which work much the same as mulitple warp targets for the same warp).
Hare

JCF Member

Joined: Aug 2001

Posts: 1,449

Hare has disabled reputation

Nov 27, 2005, 02:38 AM
Hare is offline
Reply With Quote
Well, that kinda works. The only problem is that it is kind of like drawing names from a hat, and the skilled player still gets his name tossed in with the rest. Even though the people getting roasted more often get more chances at the bonus, it is still all random anyways and the skilled player still has a chance at getting the bonus, giving him an even greater edge than before.

What about trigger zones? Those only effect the client. Maybe a system of sucker tubes and trigger zones at the spawn points?

Like, somehow make it so each time the player spawns, it unlocks another layer of the passageway that leads to the power up. Enough deaths, and the passageway is available each time the player spawns.
__________________

"Okay. I'm Understand" - burnout92
Grytolle

JCF Member

Joined: Sep 2004

Posts: 4,126

Grytolle is a forum legendGrytolle is a forum legendGrytolle is a forum legend

Nov 27, 2005, 03:37 AM
Grytolle is offline
Reply With Quote
I'd just camp in the bonus-area >D
__________________
<center></center>
FQuist

JCF Member

Joined: Sep 2001

Posts: 3,251

FQuist is an asset to this forumFQuist is an asset to this forum

Nov 27, 2005, 06:14 AM
FQuist is offline
Reply With Quote
It would allow the skilled players to sacrifice themselves at times it does not hurt and gain the bonuses. Just let yourself die and there you go.
__________________
“The truth is that everything that can be accomplished by showing a person when he's wrong, ten times as much can be accomplished by showing him where he is right.” - Robert T. Allen

Interesting Jazz-related links:
Thread: Gameplay Theories - Thread: Make Up Your Own Gametype

Spotify.fm

blurredd

JCF Member

Joined: Nov 2001

Posts: 1,896

blurredd is an asset to this forumblurredd is an asset to this forum

Nov 27, 2005, 02:15 PM
blurredd is offline
Reply With Quote
I think most systems would be abusable to a certain degree, in particular when players figure them out. You can try to think of a system which has limited abuse in CTF.
__________________
D3
Extra. No CTO v0.75
Animating Tiles Properties.
ATB Contest. Scripting Language.
Gameplay Theories.
1UP. Pitfall. Desolation.
SC2.

Birdie

JCF Member

Joined: Mar 2005

Posts: 1,796

Birdie is doing well so far

Nov 27, 2005, 02:18 PM
Birdie is offline
Reply With Quote
=o
*idea*
you could make a server room where the host could ajust how many times a player has to die to get bonuses but, if you do this if someone leaves they would break the system
also the host could abuse this.
__________________
TheKax

JCF Member

Joined: Jan 2007

Posts: 82

TheKax is doing well so far

Apr 15, 2008, 06:55 AM
TheKax is offline
Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdie View Post
=o
*idea*
you could make a server room where the host could ajust how many times a player has to die to get bonuses but, if you do this if someone leaves they would break the system
also the host could abuse this.
...or you could use the trigger commands of the almighty JJ2+. The problem just is, the server would get hard work, and the might still not be very good. Indeed, this is a "gameplay paradox". But anyone could pretend lousy (oh, well, server would deny the powerups for that player. Making even more work. Work. Work all night long.) Answer: More work = More admins. But I doubt, tihs might still not work.
__________________
Prove me wrong if I am wrong. -TheKax

It seem JCF administration got a move on since my name got "finally" changed. But hey thanks guys out there.

Making kind of a tribute to Foo races + research on the subject... (It's going better now that we have finally foo races uploaded ==> HERE.)
Progress: ▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄ 10% or so...
And also randomly here and there hosting the original Team Foo races!


"Your reputation on this post is Somewhat Positive."
Cpp

JCF Member

Joined: Mar 2001

Posts: 1,557

Cpp is doing well so far

Apr 15, 2008, 07:36 AM
Cpp is offline
Reply With Quote
I've always found a level filled with powerups the best way to give weaker players a chance.
__________________
<a href="http://nmap.org/"><img border="0" alt="Nmap Security Scanner" src="http://images.insecure.org/nmap/images/prop/nmap_bnr_matrix_pfos.gif"/></a>
Grytolle

JCF Member

Joined: Sep 2004

Posts: 4,126

Grytolle is a forum legendGrytolle is a forum legendGrytolle is a forum legend

Apr 15, 2008, 08:16 AM
Grytolle is offline
Reply With Quote
And they should have quick respawn times
__________________
<center></center>
EvilMike

JCF Member

Joined: Jun 2001

Posts: 3,478

EvilMike is OFF DA CHARTEvilMike is OFF DA CHARTEvilMike is OFF DA CHARTEvilMike is OFF DA CHART

Apr 15, 2008, 08:41 AM
EvilMike is offline
Reply With Quote
Lots of powerups and lots of carrots. Or fewer, but have them respawn quickly. That's the way you make a good battle level.

In CTF it's a bit different though.
__________________
Download my JJ2 Episodes! (5 episodes)

Visit My JJ2 Blog (HOLD YOUR HORSES I'M WORKING ON IT SHEESH)
Birdie

JCF Member

Joined: Mar 2005

Posts: 1,796

Birdie is doing well so far

Apr 15, 2008, 04:07 PM
Birdie is offline
Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kax View Post
...or you could use the trigger commands of the almighty JJ2+. The problem just is, the server would get hard work, and the might still not be very good. Indeed, this is a "gameplay paradox". But anyone could pretend lousy (oh, well, server would deny the powerups for that player. Making even more work. Work. Work all night long.) Answer: More work = More admins. But I doubt, tihs might still not work.
AND THREE YEARS LATER, I GET A REPLY.

And, a solution could be that you only get the bonus if you die by a pit a certain number of times, that way it would depreciate players from killing themselves for the powerup/carrot as they'd lose roasts.
ShadowGPW

Super Moderator

Joined: Jan 2001

Posts: 2,829

ShadowGPW is a forum legendShadowGPW is a forum legendShadowGPW is a forum legend

Apr 16, 2008, 12:13 AM
ShadowGPW is offline
Reply With Quote
Every game has this, the skilled player slowly gets more and more ''awards'' for his stuff. Just peek at other DeathMatch based games like quake or unreal. At some point they have max armor, max health, Quad Damage and all weapons? Does this makes it more unfair ? No, they call this skill and map control.
__________________
Join clan [GPW]'s discord!
https://discord.gg/ktCcYnv

S.H.A.D.O.W.: (aka Ins0mnia)
Synthetic Hydraulic Android Designed for Observation and Warfare

Mystic Legends
http://www.mysticlegends.org

Follow me on twitter: @Ins0mnia
Follow us on twitter: @Mystic_Legends
Vegito

JCF Member

Joined: Oct 2003

Posts: 2,861

Vegito is an asset to this forum

Apr 16, 2008, 04:39 AM
Vegito is offline
Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilMike View Post
Lots of powerups and lots of carrots. Or fewer, but have them respawn quickly. That's the way you make a good battle level.

In CTF it's a bit different though.
Well, look at Best CTF Party Good Luck ...
__________________
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:42 PM.