To get straight to the point, I'm seriously considering starting a webcomic.
That's putting it simply.
However, the comic I have in mind is not so much a comic as it is a project. I'm imagining it as a sort of blog on the main page, branching into several projects of very different character which I can freely continue, start, and discontinue.

I've checked Keenspace, but I'm pretty certain that their form is too restrictive from what I saw.
I could also simply make a whole new website, but that would of course cost money and require me to code the site or get someone else to code it for me...

Any ideas?

Originally Posted by Fawriel

but that would of course cost money and require me to code the site or get someone else to code it for me...

Foxmage and Frontpage.

Indeed, they will be useful.

Good luck with the comic, I had a friend start one [Well two friends actually] It lasted all of three months, and they were good drawers too.

I'm imagining it as a sort of blog on the main page, branching into several projects of very different character which I can freely continue, start, and discontinue.

I'm glad my website inspired you.

Seriously though, you should do it yourself. If you don't want to learn HTML, use something like Dreamweaver. For comic update and news scripts and the like, Google is your friend. (But don't use that 'WALRUS' script, it sucks.)

What's already been said; frontpage if you want to take the easy way out, Notepad if you want to be a MAN.

I have seen some other interesting methods, though, such as a livejournal set to show one entry per page. Usually I don't like comics put on LJs, since they are listed with the newest on top, but the one-per-page thing worked rather well. LJ is (if I recall correctly) open source so you could probably whip up something similar to that.

EDIT: Aplus.net says Fawriel.com is unregistered. I'd strike fast, even if it's just a redirect.

Originally Posted by Radium

Notepad if you want to be a MAN.

Or have a LOT of spare time!

Originally Posted by Radium

What's already been said; frontpage if you want to take the easy way out, Notepad if you want to be a MAN.

I have seen some other interesting methods, though, such as a livejournal set to show one entry per page. Usually I don't like comics put on LJs, since they are listed with the newest on top, but the one-per-page thing worked rather well. LJ is (if I recall correctly) open source so you could probably whip up something similar to that.

EDIT: Aplus.net says Fawriel.com is unregistered. I'd strike fast, even if it's just a redirect.

A LiveJournal sounds like a rather unserious approach.
I was kind of hoping for an offer to use space on foxmage.com, although technically, I already have it. Where's the manipulatively benevolent spirit, man? ;o

...and I don't get what you meant with the last part. Why is it a redirect? And besides, the name is unique, so there's no need to hurry...

Originally Posted by Fawriel

A LiveJournal sounds like a rather unserious approach.

Only if you have some bright neon pink page that says "fawriels awesome jornal" on the top in comic sans. If you focus on making the page look pretty and only posting comics to it, it makes a good alternative to coding your own updater.

Originally Posted by Fawriel

...and I don't get what you meant with the last part. Why is it a redirect? And besides, the name is unique, so there's no need to hurry...

Well, when short domain names sit around for long enough, eventually search engine or advertisement sites seem to buy them. But you're right, there's probably little chance of that happening for a long while (they're still after all the last of the 3 letter domains, which have been reduced to obscure things like 4n1.com)

Three lessons that have been proven again and again:

1.) Do not base the comic on in jokes or other people's characters

2.) Do not be cliched; stay away from furry comics and animie styles.

3.)Try to make a buffer of strips, just in case.

Originally Posted by Doubble Dutch

2.) Do not be cliched; stay away from furry comics and animie styles.

You pretty much described Faw there.

I think a better way to put it is that there are two ways to succeed: Do something that's never been done before, or so something better than it's ever been done before.

Drawing something in a familiar style does not a cliche make. Just because it looks like it's from Japan doesn't make it bad.

And I could possibly maybe help a tiny bit with coding. I'm just bad with PHP and all that other dynamic-type stuff.

Here are some tips of my own for a webcomic. Considering my artistic ability is nil, maybe it's not my place to critique drawings, but I do know a thing or two about writing, so I thought I'd throw my 2 cents out there. Of course, you're a very talented guy, Faw and probably don't need these tips, but here you go anyway.

1) Don't include an omnipotent author character. You'd be surprised at how many comics incorporate this, and I'm not just talking about sprite comics.

2) Keep the characters in character. If your characters are generic, or just foils in random gags, nobody's going to form a connection with them and that drags down the quality.

3) While it may be a good idea to keep the writing of specific incidents spontaneous, try to keep a general idea of where you're going, so you don't write yourself into a corner.

Probably incredibly obvious advice, but there you go anyway.

Originally Posted by Radium

You pretty much described Faw there.

(FTR)


As for the others, thanks for the advice..
I'd like to say that it was not needed, but it happens all too often that one fails to heed something they thought they'd know. And stuff.
The very reason why I choose such an unconventional approach is that I want to avoid being cliched. If I had to come up with a new strip every day or every two days or so with fixed characters, fixed concepts and a fixed everything, I'd end up doing what everyone does: Have a cast consisting of one or more idiots, one or more sarcastic (-) and any number of other cliches, and there go your bitter jokes about how everyone sucks but me and fancomics with the plot "omg this is a comic with self-referential humor hi".
Meh.

So, I want to be experimental. Just with a goal this time.

[Flame tag removal - FQuist]

Originally Posted by Fawriel

Get lost, hypocrite. \o/

Wait, what? It was true that she described you. And the rest of my post was just disagreeing with her.

Oh, and don't forget to pay attention to what works and doesn't work in comics that took a similar approach (I Am A Rocket Builder, while only partially similar to what you described, is all that comes to mind right now, though I know there were others).

The point behind experiments is to find new things that work, though, isn't it.

Originally Posted by Fawriel

The point behind experiments is to find new things that work, though, isn't it.

That doesn't mean blindly taking stabs in the dark. What sets experiments apart from guessing is the scientific process. It doesn't start with a trial, but an observation of a pattern (e.g. lots of comics with kittens are popular), followed by a hypothesis (quantity of kittens is related to popularity), and then experimentation (a comic taking place in KITTENLAND). In the most basic sense, it's about making educated guesses wherever there is education available to guess by.

Seems pretty boring to me. True progress comes from within. If you are convinced yourself that a concept can succeed, it will, if only for people who think the same as you. From then on, the experimentation gets a basis. And stuff.

Drawing something in a familiar style does not a cliche make. Just because it looks like it's from Japan doesn't make it bad.

No, but it associates it with a lot of stuff that is.

The point behind experiments is to find new things that work, though, isn't it.

Or to find an improved way of doing something, or to do what has been done before to confirm it. All of these can be applied to webcomics.

Seems pretty boring to me.

Sadly, most research is.

True progress comes from within. If you are convinced yourself that a concept can succeed, it will, if only for people who think the same as you. From then on, the experimentation gets a basis. And stuff.

Those are the famous last words of many a man [and ferret] Drive and ambition will get you a long way, but it needs a kernel of truth to be based apon.

Originally Posted by Jackle

Just because it looks like it's from Japan doesn't make it bad.

And just because a comic has idiot and sarcastic main characters doesn't make it bad.

Didn't say that's the case. But it seems to be the webcomic archetype, and there are so many cheap spinoffs.. meh.

This is probably common knowledge, but plan out your strips a while before actually making them so you don't end up having to think of a punchline last minute and making a rushed strip to suit a deadline or something. You kinda implied that you won't be updating regularly and just whenever you feel like it though, so this advice might be useless to you. Good luck, anyways.

If at some point you'd decide to update regularly, pick a schedule that you know you can maintain. It's always too bad to see good webcomics cut back on their update schedule, even if it's for the best for the quality of the comic.

Well..
Well, well.
Seeing how I was busy this whole day, and the business will remain throughout the rest of the holidays ( I kid you not, I'm visiting my mother in Leipzig, I brought the savestates of my ZSNES roms but I haven't had the chance to use any of them yet )... I guess the webcomic won't come to happen within the next few weeks. But, at the end of this one, something might happen that could seriously boost my productivity. Hehehe...
I'll still have to take one exam after the holidays... which I will definitely have to learn for. But, when I have enough breathing space, I will definitely look into this. As long as I'm not done with school, not much will be happening either way, and the "webcomic" probably won't be much more than a purpose for my artistic progress, but school really takes high priority, as the semesters are really short right now, it's the last year, and we are the first class to have to take experimental centralized exams.. no teacher knows exactly what those are going to look like, what will be in them... so lessons are intensive.
The local government is even already PREPARED for an onslaught of people suing them for the experiment when their child fails it... wish me luck, everyone.

Originally Posted by Enigma

If at some point you'd decide to update regularly, pick a schedule that you know you can maintain. It's always too bad to see good webcomics cut back on their update schedule, even if it's for the best for the quality of the comic.

There's always the other way this goes, where a webcomic claims to have no schedule but ends up being updated every day for nearly three years (Irregular Webcomic).

Good luck Faw; you're the smartest person on this board that I know of, I know you can do it!

Holy crap.
I mean, uh, thank you. ^^;

... I must say I got quite suprised myself to hear such words from DD...

There must be some sort of hidden sarcasm!
Or am I just too cynical?

No, I'm quite serious. While I suspect a number of people here are a heck of a lot smarter at a heck of a lot of things than I am, Faw is the only one I have a large enough body of solid evidence behind that I could say 'Of all those present here he is smartest.'

I'm smarter than Faw, I just try not to flaunt it D=

In my opinion, creating a comic is about 51% artwork, 49% writing. If you focus too much on the artwork, it will be easier to entice new readers into the fan base. However, writing and story crafting are what drive the comic and keep whatever fan base you have.

Also, try to at the BARE minimum have 3-6 months of strips ready before you even start. That'll allow you to ease your way into the world of work and headaches that'll await you. Plus you'll have some buffer time in case you hit any early snags. Don't try to update regularly right away either. Practice setting deadlines and getting strips ready, but they're only pretend so it won't hurt.

Also, characters in webcomics stagnate, and I find that as a reader to be particularly boring. Although conventianally, comic characters stay very stable over the course of their long runs, you say you want to be experimental. Try finding ways to keep your characters dynamic. This'll in turn help your hump about "Cheeky (-) and bit players super adventure comic!", in relation to generic characters.

As you can tell, I know more about writing than I do about the art aspect of it. Talk to Rad for that, I guess. For help with art, I'll give you some ideas for experimentation. I've always found that speech bubbles impede the art. It can get really cluttered for large peices of dialogue. My suggestion is to think, and draw, out of the box. You can apply concepts of infinite canvas, if you're familiar with Scott McCloud. If not, just try and find ways to keep the dialogue easily acsessible, but out of the way. But this is up to you, of course. These are just things I once considered for myself.

Setting is very important. Real life settings, DON'T HAVE TO BE BORING. I'm sick of seeing all the interesting comics in Space or Mediaval times, and realistic scenarios are chocked full of gaming webcomics. Notice that the few comics that aren't gaming ones which do take place in real-life situations are sucsessful ones. El Goonish Shive, Zebra Girl, It's Walky are some examples which readily come to mind.

Basically, I can tell that you want your comic to stand out in every way, which is good. The more abstract, the more influential you'll be. And then you start getting the ladies, and then...well, you know.

Good luck have fun.

Wow.. thanks for the pointers. I guess I should stop thinking that everyone here just puts creating a good webcomic by myself past me and really just want to help someone they don't really know the skills of.. *shakes fist at Rad*
...frankly, I don't know my own skills in that field yet, either. Huh.


So, as I said I want to have a bunch of projects in one place, of different character. Some ideas so far that I had involved one-panel comics, political caricatures, a manga rendition of Romeo and Juliet or Macbeth that acts as a sort of essay on what actually defines manga ( "that's where they all have huge eyes, right?" ), a comic written in a fictional language that the reader is not meant to understand ( experimenting with how to present a story without relying on speech ), and probably some experiments to the opposite direction, since I want to make use of narration in comics...

Originally Posted by Fawriel

a manga rendition of Romeo and Juliet or Macbeth that acts as a sort of essay on what actually defines manga ( "that's where they all have huge eyes, right?" )

This project begs to have every cliche found in Magna heaped onto it, which is surprising since you were against idiot characters.

No.


Seriously, no. It's supposed to be perfectly serious.

I find it hard for "Perfectly serious" and the quote "that's where they all have huge eyes, right?" to be in unison.

What's your angle for this comic? It sounds like you have a lot of ideas, but you lack a specific selling point.

For starters, is this going to be a gag-a-day strip, or a plot-driven comic? Each have their advantages. Gag-a-day strips tend to sell easier and make more money, but plot-driven comics appeal to keeping fan bases. Of course, there are always strips which aim for the middle ground, such as Calvin and Hobbes.

Gag-a-day strips make for less developed characters, but who fit in almost any scenerio and can make it funny. They can also be one-panelers. Unfortunantly, it's hard to keep something going, because that defeats the purpose of a gag-a-day strip. A plot-driven one is harder, and sounds more like what you want. The characters are developed, but that limits the situations they can be in. Less topics can be covered in this setting. One-panel strips, though not uncommon, become major cop-outs that everyone feels cheated by. Writing has to be more solid, and they're harder to sell unless in graphic novel form. Even still, it's difficult to fit in a graphic novel if you have abstract paneling.

Aside from Calvin and Hobbes which has story arcs as well as simple 4 panel gags, Dominic Deegan has long stories which can last for many months. They tend to go on for too long though, and Mookie experiences fluctuating interest in his comic, noticeable on the forums. However, the mechanics of his comic, especially his mastery of cliff-hangers, are very solid and note worthy. Plus, each strip operates like a scene in a play. Set-up, rising actions, small climax, and then lead-in to the next thing. Each week starts out slowly on Monday, with the strips getting more intense until Friday when it reaches a peak and delivers a cliff-hanger to get people to come back and read on Mondays. So each story has a rising plot, each week developes a rising section of the plot, and each strip developes it's own small section. Too bad Dominic Deegan sucks now, cause it had some great bits.

That was a tangent point though. Now to get back on subject, focus. The ideas you have seem to be only "eh" to me. What defines a manga? Sounds like mostly all the other comics out there. You want REAL influence, try "What defines a webcomic?" Your idea about fictional language, an expression of story without words sounds more abstract, but also sounds gimmicky. A truely ground-breaking webcomic to me would totally reshape every aspect of the medium, not just one aspect but keep the rest the same.

Originally Posted by Strato

Your idea about fictional language, an expression of story without words sounds more abstract, but also sounds gimmicky. A truely ground-breaking webcomic to me would totally reshape every aspect of the medium, not just one aspect but keep the rest the same.

There is a fine line between revolutionary and gimmicky. It often varies from person to person, too. Personally, I find it has a lot to do with how much of something is original. I think the Shakespeare manga has no potential, and will simply come across as a needless, gimmicky modification to an existing work (like, "look, it's Shakespear. Only IN JAPANESE").
The comic in a fictional language could work, but only if it's executed well. Frankly, it's not the kind of thing I'd start with. It takes a LOT of both artistic and writing skill to be able to tell a story without words. The writing skill is important even sans text, as doing something original won't automatically make it good - you'll still be expected to use foreshadowing, symbolism, character development, emphasis, and so on, only visually rather than textually.

Jesus...

Originally Posted by n00b

I find it hard for "Perfectly serious" and the quote "that's where they all have huge eyes, right?" to be in unison.

I don't see your point. That was just to clarify the intention... although obviously, I failed to convey that.

Since everyone raised that point, let me clarify that at least most of you did not understand me at all.
Well, as for Strato, I have no idea what he means in the first place. "Sounds like mostly all the other comics out there"?
As for Radium, you just completely didn't get it. I'm aiming for a complete reinterpretation here, like, say, that one movie that places Macbeth in the suburbs of England and makes the characters teenagers and kids. Everybody knows at least Romeo and Juliet, so I figure it will be illustrative. I'm tired of phrases like the one about big eyes, which are not even necessarily a part of mangas, it's just a convention. That I'm trying to capture the spirit of manga doesn't mean that it'll have potty humor, transvestites or funny animal comic relief and crap. I'll try to present a story the way a modern day manga artist would present it with his means.

And Strato, I'm not aiming for a single comic. As I said, I will have several different comics. They'll just occupy the same space and can be accessed from the main page.

Originally Posted by Fawriel

As for Radium, you just completely didn't get it. I'm aiming for a complete reinterpretation here, like, say, that one movie that places Macbeth in the suburbs of England and makes the characters teenagers and kids. Everybody knows at least Romeo and Juliet, so I figure it will be illustrative. I'm tired of phrases like the one about big eyes, which are not even necessarily a part of mangas, it's just a convention. That I'm trying to capture the spirit of manga doesn't mean that it'll have potty humor, transvestites or funny animal comic relief and crap. I'll try to present a story the way a modern day manga artist would present it with his means.

It still strikes me as an unnecessary modification, really. The fact that people already know Romeo and Juliet is a problem rather than an advantage; everyone knows all the major plot points, so there will be no element of surprise or suspense, no new themes, and the only reason people would read it is to see pretty pictures.

Personally, I'd suggest either going for a complete rewrite that hides the Shakespeare from people that aren't looking for it (think the Lion King) or doing a compilation of a lot of shakespeare stories into one.

What was the old saying agin? something like 'It doesn't matter what you do, just try your hardest and have fun'