Originally Posted by Unknown Rabbit

You may be thinking of Miscellaneous Stuff, but I assure you that there are other forums.

I read all new posts. If you're talking about question threads, they are not common, and most are answered solely by you. A thank you system will be boring.

Originally Posted by IconGuy

A thank you system will be boring.

Agree. Reputation is good for the JCF with all its occassional discussion and banter.

A "thank you" system sounds like an endless circlejerk (no wonder it's on Digiex).

I always considered this forum pretty good at generating huge piles of "discussion" just by making any slight change, but I think this is the worst case yet.

Minmay's right, this is getting ridiculous. It's just a little number, for pete's sake. If people are going to take it seriously, that's their problem. The post is more important. People like snooze are just overreacting.

Originally Posted by cooba

A "thank you" system sounds like an endless circlejerk (no wonder it's on Digiex).

Have you got anything nice to say ever? I've browsed JCF over the past day and found two entries where you've ever slamed me or Digiex.

Get over your issues seriously.

And for your reference, Digiex Forums gets over 350,000 Unique Views and over $600 Dollars in Adsense Revenue a month, what have you achieved?

Originally Posted by Nimrod

And for your reference, Digiex Forums gets over 350,000 Unique Views and over $600 Dollars in Adsense Revenue a month, what have you achieved?

Oh come on, what does that have to do with anything? Not that cooba's reply was all that constructive; no need to get snappy when someone is offering help.

Thanks for the heads-up, Nimrod, I'll certainly look into it. I'm still not convinced the reputation system really needs replacement (minmay has a good point) but it's always good to have an alternative.

Sorry for losing it, but I was only making a suggestion to aid the JCF, whenever you agreed with the idea or not, as it does work in some circumstance.

We had a big problem with wasted posts saying "Thanks" which on some of our guides or download threads was becoming a big mess on the forum, so it solved that and also made our reputation system more widely used.

In retrospect it may not be required for JCF's requirements or vision, but that still doesnt justify one of your staff just throwing in a quick snarky remark when all I did was spend my time offering a suggestion.

Originally Posted by Dermo

And quite frankly, I'm a bit nervous about neg-repping cooba, seeing as he's an admin

Originally Posted by Toni

Old player(s) (I won't tell on who I mean, because he will delete that post with reason "Personal attack")

Originally Posted by Nimrod

one of your staff

I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here...

Originally Posted by cooba

I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here...

Your a J2O staff member, and as such was what I was referencing, stop trying to pick holes.

why you quoted my post cooba? I didn't think on you... I am not as such as idiot as you think I am. I see your status on this forum and it is as mine is JCF Member . Please answer me, I prefer to know why you quoted my post.

Toni, you're making quite serious allegations of power abuse yet you will not mention names. Unless you do, it's hard to 1. take your arguments against reputation seriously 2. not see it as slander. 3. not resort to guessing which admin/person you might mean

For the record, none of the admins delete posts that are critical of them (without resorting to breaking rules like personal attacks) and if they do, I'd like to hear about it so I can investigate.

It's kinda entertaining seeing how a topic about a forum feature tryout turned from curiosity, to negitivity from a bunch of drama queens, then degraded to the administrators having a public argument.

there is more action here than a G8 summit. all that's needed is the clouds of tear gas.

EDIT: This comment was referring to an admin of another forum arguing with somone everybody seems to think is an admin. I do not have anything against the moderators or the administration of this forum, and I am sorry this comment caused a misunderstanding.

It's the reputation. Even presented as digits and squares, determined by such a nonsensical system as a rep button, it gets people crazy.

In fact, I bet Nimrod is just sour about his low rep.

Originally Posted by Puffie40

It's kinda entertaining seeing how a topic about a forum feature tryout turned from curiosity, to negitivity from a bunch of drama queens, then degraded to the administrators having a public argument.

there is more action here than a G8 summit. all that's needed is the clouds of tear gas.

What administrators? No administrators are having any argument. In fact, the active ones tend to support the same view in this. No idea what you're talking about.

Also, I don't feel like the admins are having any heated discussion with any members, either.

EDIT: Puffie said he meant digiEX/J2O admins. makes sense. But let's please leave that discussion.

This may get deleted, but just pointing out: administrators have opinions too. And they can argue them in the capacity of users without necessarily stating official site/forum policy.

Originally Posted by cooba

Agree. Reputation is good for the JCF with all its occassional discussion and banter.

A "thank you" system sounds like an endless circlejerk (no wonder it's on Digiex).

So this is what it all started with, out of the blue for no apprant reason an attack on Digiex. What provoked it? Linking to a Modification which has worked well on our site and I was only suggesting it MIGHT also work for JCF.

Lets look at the term CircleJerk, and what caused me to even respond.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...erm=circlejerk

Originally Posted by Stijn

Oh come on, what does that have to do with anything? Not that cooba's reply was all that constructive; no need to get snappy when someone is offering help.

Thanks for the heads-up, Nimrod, I'll certainly look into it. I'm still not convinced the reputation system really needs replacement (minmay has a good point) but it's always good to have an alternative.

Cooba wasnt offering help, he was throwing a cheap shot at Digiex which he loves to do, or even directly to myself, one could even sum it up as trying to start a flame war. But don't worry, as hes part of your team its all fine!

Originally Posted by IconGuy

It's the reputation. Even presented as digits and squares, determined by such a nonsensical system as a rep button, it gets people crazy.

In fact, I bet Nimrod is just sour about his low rep.

Honestly, couldnt care less, do you think if I cared about rep at JCF I would visit a bit more often than once every few months usually just to read up on whats been going on. Sadly however everytime I've come to the JCF, Iv either found Cooba has been flaming me while I've been gone, or as soon as I post anything he will be there to do so. Its like a cycle and its about to repeat itself, I pop my head in, Cooba flames, I can't be arsed and don't bother coming back for a while.


Now, the big problem with this, is most of the conversation has been prompted deleted by Stijn, though some of Coobas post remain, including the thing that started it off. I never came here to make an arguement, all I did was browse JCF, saw this thread and thought, hey I got an idea which could help, and suggested it. It doesn't bother me if its selected or not, I just thought hey a chance to maybe help and I did. A simple response like the second half of Stijn's was all that was needed.

Maybe I shouldn't have jumped to the defence when Cooba launched his attack, but its got to the point where I'm fed up with constantly being slammed by him whenever I make an appearance, even though I go out of my way to avoid it. Over the past few years whenever I pop my head into the JJ2 Scene, its happened, from homophobic abuse to just slamming me over the past. If you lot knew what it was all over, your think how stupid (but just so you know, it all started when I didnt give Cooba the Bash server password as we had more than enough admins).

I'll think I'll try and make this my last post for a while, as its clear the admins of the forums will hide and protect Cooba's posts (some of or should I say most of his deleted posts were abusive), all I did was post a suggestion and look what its turned into, the point of the thread is gone and more people like to but in and give an opinion on our argument when they don't know what its all about. As always if people have problems with connectivity to the list server please drop me a message, though if you want a quick response I'd suggest either IM me or PM me on Digiex.

PS: If people are still annoyed about my behaviour like 5 years ago with the List Server and so fourth, thats 5 years ago. I was young, it was the past.

[I suspect this will be deleted or heavily edited]

How about deleting every post in the range 177-188, and post 174? This would delete this small flamewar between Cooba and Nimrod.Oh god, you are so going to negrep me

Oh please. I really wish people would stop playing the "but the admins of this forum are worse than Stalin and censor and edit and delete everything" card. I agree, cooba should not have brought up DigiEx in the first place, but by the point I saw it there were some posts replying to that already and basically the damage was done - I didn't see much point in deleting that (since, contrary to my apparent image, I actually try to be conservative with what I edit or delete). The posts I deleted were 100% off-topic and I saw them shortly after they were posted, so I deleted them and posted a small notice to keep this thread on topic. Which obviously didn't quite reach people, judging by the recent posts.

So I'll repeat it again, for everyone: vague allegations about administrators of either J2O or the JCF are not constructive, and neither are personal flamewars that don't have anything to do with the topic at hand. If you feel an overwhelming need to make under-the-belt remarks about other people please use other channels than this forum for that. If you have something constructive to say about the reputation feature or a "thanks button", feel free to keep posting here. If not, well, don't.

Cooba wasnt offering help, he was throwing a cheap shot at Digiex which he loves to do, or even directly to myself, one could even sum it up as trying to start a flame war. But don't worry, as hes part of your team its all fine!

I was pointing out that cooba's remark was grossly out of place, because all you were doing was being helpful. I kind of hoped the right people would take the hint, but apparently not. Sorry for being unclear.

PLEASE get on-topic, or you WILL get deleted. no more.

Am I the only one actually enjoying this new feature? Sure it's more shallow than an empty glass of whisky, but isn't it just great recieving rep for posts you'd forgotten about?

I just like getting some positive comments from it, gives me a smile, I hate it however when I get blank comments that's worse than neg rep comments for me. It seems the dust is settling now and people have accepted reputation. As its no certain doom people, I'm happy with reputation as long as there's no punishment system, as I'm sure that would kick everything off again

Will there actually be a thanks button then, I kinda take it there won't since last time Stijn just put the idea onto JCF when dermo mentioned rep. Unless of course Stijn just wants to avoid another season of JCF drama island, in that case I don't blame him.

@mimmay, I'm talking about before cooba and nimrods flamewar. People were kicking up a fuss.

Pretty sure none of this happened because of the reputation system.

Woa lots of removed posts :S

well i think the thanks button would more than beneficial , I belive that the rep feature has its plus sides but alot of downsides i.e you can personaly attack somebody and also just down them for jokes or anything you dont approve of.

Still i would be more than willing to put this "Thanks" to the test atleast it has if none downsides to it *well none that spring to mind* i know im not a well like person on this forum but i belive that the a little thanks is better than down rep or + rep.

Finaly i conclude that the "Thanks" feature is best all round and there is Nimrod that has stated that if Stign would take his time to add Nimrod would take his own time to help "Stijn you have my MSN and I can tell you the phrases to edit to customize it so you could have it set up in less than 5 minutes"

Also last but not least i think *u may think i think alot :P* that there should also be fourm achivements and the forum users should think of them and the moderators should pick them. but have a few funny achivements in just for the lols


anyway thats enough of me for today
*my head hurts*

_Rippor,Crazy_

That would have the disadvantage of making older members more "reputable," regardless of whether they actually are.

Similarly, someone could go from being very helpful to relentlessly trolling (I've seen it happen many times), and would keep their high "reputation" no matter how much everyone hates them.

Just trying to avoid the pathetic situation where some forum member with minor/no idea about things sees that someone has a reputation of 2 or so and someone else 30+ and thinks that the latter is automatically more respectable/reputable.
Because if that starts happening, then this will become a forum of delusion.

hahaha a forum of delusion

Originally Posted by Raven aka StL

Just trying to avoid the pathetic situation where some forum member with minor/no idea about things sees that someone has a reputation of 2 or so and someone else 30+ and thinks that the latter is automatically more respectable/reputable.
Because if that starts happening, then this will become a forum of delusion.

Well there will be that case I'm afraid. It all depends on why you lost that rep as well. People may not respect you for some of those posts. I don't care what you have said in the past, since you got to live in the moment, if you have made a decent post then no one is gonna neg rep you, and your become more "respectable" from it.

So has anyone actually experienced any negative side-effects of the reputation feature apart from this thread?

man i have no idea what's even going on in this thread anymore

In response to Stijn's question, most of the potential problems are things that don't appear right away - especially sensitive members leaving the forum because of low reputation, people bragging about high reputation, people repeatedly going offtopic to talk about someone's reputation (similar to how some people go offtopic to discuss post counts), and perhaps most importantly, especially sensitive members being hesitant to post anything potentially controversial out of fear for their precious reputation points.

Of course, some might consider those to be good things.

Also, repping is another uncontrolled way of flaming eachother, but PMs can be used as well, so yeah... This doesn't contribute at all, I guess, but I'm gonna post this anyway because I don't fear for rep.

Originally Posted by Speeza

Well there will be that case I'm afraid. It all depends on why you lost that rep as well. People may not respect you for some of those posts. I don't care what you have said in the past, since you got to live in the moment, if you have made a decent post then no one is gonna neg rep you, and your become more "respectable" from it.

There are people who negrep for no apparent reason and people who gain 'reputation' for no apparent reason.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the poster above me, what with his low reputation and all...

I believe I told the most of my arguments already. I'd personally like to hear why actually should we keep the feature. I think I only heard two arguments of your side:
1. It should make people think twice before posting - sure, nice one, although it doesn't work like that. People with currently high rep don't need to think before posting, what's a chance they'd lose the whole huge amount of points they have? Besides, other high rep people like them, only some newbies could actually negrep them and what would be the effect? One, maybe two points of loss, what's the matter. On the other hand, those newbies with low rep are scared of posting. They're not only thinking twice, they think ten times and in the result don't press the button not to lose even more rep.
2. The number helps in finding out who's writing the best posts - and, as has been said multiple times, this doesn't work as well. "The number means nothing/not much" I've seen much times. I think mostly people on your side were saying so. If it means nothing, what do need it for? It's useless, isn't it? Does it make some of you smile after noticing that your nothing-meaning-number is higher than mine? Do you need an appreciation of this kind? Because I can't understand why do you keep saying it's not something to care about, it's meaningless, but at the same time the reputation counter is helpful and it can't be deleted, and so I'm an immature drama queen deserving to be negrepped.

I believe the intention is to provide useful feedback on posts (whether it actually does that is open for debate).

I like this feature because:

1. It's funny to see reputation comments, especially after making a really bad post...

2. "this will become a forum of delusion" would have never been typed if it wasn't for this thread

3. it made snooze get mad again, and a bunch of other people are kind of mad for some reason

4. It made fquist post a graph (I would have given reputation but it wouldn't let me!!!)

5. It's actually kind of interesting if you use it for its intended purpose

Basically it makes the jcf slightly more interesting. Just stop taking it so seriously!

I support the reputation system. Obviously idiots will use it for unintended purposes, but it is actually entertaining for all the reasons Mike just stated.

The main argument I've seen in favor of reputation is that it provides feedback on posts, and the main argument against is the evaluation of people based on their rep number. So I have yet another proposal: make the number private. That way you still see how you're doing and what people think of your posts, but you don't get judged.

Originally Posted by Unknown Rabbit

So I have yet another proposal: make the number private. That way you still see how you're doing and what people think of your posts, but you don't get judged.

I had this idea before as well and I agree with it. It has its flaws but I like it. The second possibility I found was exactly opposite - making it fully public, so everyone can see why and who negrepped someone. In this way, you could actually get an opinion about a given member (let's say, seeing he's got negrep mainly from people you don't respect and they gave it out without a real reason, while positive rep from people you like). The problem of this solution is obvious, everyone can see what you wrote and thus dislike and negrep you just due to your comment.

But I believe we're mature enough not to do such things, aren't we?

This thread keeps me laughing like a maniac.

Originally Posted by Sir Ementaler

But I believe we're mature enough not to do such things, aren't we?

Some of us, maybe.