1-5
4-5
5-0
=
10-10, there's no winner...

(-)...that's YOUR way of counting.

uhm dudes, if you play via counting points from each round, then why play 3? cuz with that system the third is only a if the first 2 dont produce a winner...

That's what the third round was for , Urbs. :P

Let me explain why Chiyu thought otherwise about how to count the scores. There was indeed an agreement about semi being just in case (this can be proven by chatlogs), however there seemed to be some kind of silent understanding that it would be a "real" round when the game begun, there was never a verbal such agreement, however.

Afterwards it turned out that Chiyu thought it was just in case, and the fact that he didn't seem to care too much during the loss of the semi-round makes me believe that to be true.

Obviously, this lead to a conflict afterwards, and the CW was put to rest. Later on Yasco and I tried to solve things and I proposed the round based scoring a solution. Chiyu never agreed on this though. Somehow, Yasco and I managed to schedule the remaining rounds, and then we still didn't agree on a scoring solution.

The night of the clanwar, we tried to make last minute agreements, and Chiyu wasn't in the conversation, so I made that deal with 8D, since Chiyu didn't have any better idea that 8D could accept (it is true though, that Chiyu never approved of what I did). In any case, this ends up with one question:

Which weighs the most - the descision made by me (who was given the task of arranging the clanwar by Chiyu) or the fact that Chiyu didn't approve, as CC's leader.

The descision to present it as a win was made within the ECC-council, which consists in the Leader, CoLeaders, Division- and GameLeaders of all CC's divisions. I don't wanna give my opinion on this proceeding, but atleast you know how it was taken now.

The scores matter, not the winners of rounds, duh.
As long as the losing team CAN match the winning team's score in the third round. It will be played.

That is extremely easy to understand and abide logic that you should have from the very start followed.
If not, it'd seem as if you're following the way of thinking that suits your clan the best. -_-
But if you do think this way then accept my deepest apologies.

Grytolle told me that he was in charge of the clanwar and that he told us that we'd use the round based system. So I don't really see what Chiyu has to do with this. Also , In the logs I read I can read that Chiyu didn't really refuse to use this kind of round bases system....

Thanks for clarifying that Gry. Let me reply to Yasco's post now.

In CC's organisation, Leaders and CoLeaders can always outrank DivisionLeaders and GameLeaders (as is probably the case in most clans). In other words, the Leader & CoLeader can veto a DivisionLeader's or GameLeader's decision.

And as Gry (who you do believe) says, I didrefuse several times. These logs are from the 25th of December:

[22:34:06] Johan // Grt: Ill aim for the compromise
[22:34:15] Johan // Grt: this round is real and we will get round
based scoring
[22:34:20] Tom // Chiyu: no way :S

and a while later:

[22:36:44] Johan // Grt: well
[22:36:50] Johan // Grt: I siad round based scoring as the deal
[22:36:50] Tom // Chiyu: I refuse

and later again:

[22:39:43] Johan // Grt: Well, as I tell you
[22:39:46] Johan // Grt: we have 2 options
[22:39:52] Tom // Chiyu: we haven't got any options at all
[22:40:06] Tom // Chiyu: we just stick to the normal procedure and
dont make any compromises with (-) yasco >_>
[22:40:26] Johan // Grt: 1) let them count this round as real, with
summed scoring (BAD)
2) let them coutn this round as real, with round bases
scoring (drastically increasing our winning chances)
[22:40:37] Tom // Chiyu: why would you want to change to round based
scoring?
[22:40:42] Tom // Chiyu: it's better if we take normal scoring
[22:40:56] Tom // Chiyu: less risky

I even asked Gry if he could pass that on to 8'D and just let them blame me instead of him (=Gry) for the fact that CC' will not accept round based scoring, but Yasco's reaction implies that he was unaware of this.

So whether people agree with me that it should be counted by scores or not, there is one point that cannot be questioned: I have been consistent from the beginning till the end and have never agreed on round based scoring, not before the clanwar, not after. So the claim made by *some* people that I (or CC) changed it's mind after the clanwar in order to turn a defeat into a victory is completely false.

Originally Posted by Wallace

The scores matter, not the winners of rounds, duh.
As long as the losing team CAN match the winning team's score in the third round. It will be played.

That is extremely easy to understand and abide logic that you should have from the very start followed.
If not, it'd seem as if you're following the way of thinking that suits your clan the best. -_-
But if you do think this way then accept my deepest apologies.

No, Wallace. Nature did not get created with a set of rules for jj2 clanwars to go with gravitation, friction and such.

What I said is merely a commonly followed system.
But if you use a different one, then what could I do?!

look chiyu if u refused why play then? Then u simply should have said no cw. I mean you are the leader and stuff.

Originally Posted by [GpW]Urbs

look chiyu if u refused why play then? Then u simply should have said no cw. I mean you are the leader and stuff.

Because then 8D could, and would have the right to, claim a 5-1 win at best and a 15-1 win at worst. Also, stuff like this shouldn't get in the way of jj2 fun.

Originally Posted by Vivando

The possibility for a tie in scores is tiny indeed, so the semi-round proved to be more useless than it first looked like. While you played that one 'softly', knewing it would be a 'KeesTheCaSe'-round, although in begin we had the idea it was like any normal first round.

Now we played Distopia, just as well softly because we had the idea the score in there wouldn't affect to the outcome, because of the semi-round. We even changed our line-up.

...and we even gave you a rematch for the JE-round, where the score was way less close originally, but you just claim it as a nearly deja vu-victory.

I don't think playing Distopia is a bad idea. (And Semi if you want that badly.)
..And then change to the score system Chiyu always wanted.
Me and Yasco discussed playing Distopia again (unofficially) .. But Chiyu doesn't want that so far. Imo it's the best solution availible, lol. It would immediatly solve all problems -.-
(Let alone playing Semi again too. But I don't even bother asking that.)
And the way "CC" got to this "win" ? .. oh well, I dont even bother replying on all that anymore. Its just that I dont agree at all :[

Chiyu , if you really always disagreed with the round based system , why didn't you say so after the JE round? As we were all asking "will we still play the Distopia round? just for the honour or sth". And in the chat with Veg and Gry right before the 2nd round began , you also stated that it was best to play JE first as you might even not get to play the level of your choice. So this sounds like you didn't refuse the round based system.
Truth is that you NEVER , really NEVER talked to me about this clanwar , you set Grytolle in charge of the arranging. And if he tells me(and all the rest) that he is in charge of the clanwar and that he can decide about the scoring system then I believe him. You COULD call it Gry's fault , but in my opinion you should've talked to me about all this as you're saying you're the uberboss. Because...let's compare it to soccer : when a trainer tells a defender not to make stupid tackles , but he still does and he gets sent off the field by the referee , then it will be this player's team that will be punished and not the opponent. In this case is the opponent , but we do get punished(by "losing" this cw in your eyes).

At some point I agree with Stijn. It could be perhaps foolish to think like that, but after remembering some memories, it might be Chiyu purposally messing up this clanwar, and try to make others believe they are wrong, no matter what.

It's really rude, that during the semi-round our people considered as a first round, and afterwards Chiyu tells us that it actually wasn't one.(..as his team took it out carelessly?)

Next Chiyu wanted us to think we had already won.(..and play Distopia-round carelessly?) Then he would just sum up scores, and surprise, that's yet another victory for CC, which was posted as great news on CC's website. Meanwhile Gry made it clear for the people in jcf, that 8'D had won. That just caused the situation to become really confusing. What clan really won in fact?

I don't think both clans considering this war as a victory for themselves is a good idea after all. Because we actually gave a rematch for CC' in JE, they could just give us a rematch in Distopia. The reason for our request on Distopia's rematch isn't the same, but is no more excuse than "LAG". If there can't be agreement on that, then it could be the whole clanwar to be either rematched, or deleted permanently.

You really do want a rematch it seems. I've talked to Yasco several times already about that. I wouldn't mind doing a rematch in Distopia. Neither would Grytolle. But so far Chiyu is afraid :P doesn't want yet. He thinks it's a good offer, but for now he wants 1 week rest. Anyways, I might be able to get him here, to seriously consider replaying Distopia.
And under what conditions then? The way Chiyu counts now I guess? which means if it will be 5-4 to CC, its 9-9 overall thus a draw and Semi counts?
(It would solve all problems too. :P)

@ SJ : I do not want this clanwar to be deleted. I don't think 8-D deserves that.

We won that's it. If I'd known you start bragging if there is any chance to do so I would have played better in distopia. I thought it would be nice to let you have your honor or whatever it is. Nevertheless in my eyes you don't have any honor anymore. I'm sorry.
So if I ever agree to play a cw againts you again... there won't be any honor that I'll let you have. I'll just try to crush you down with my full power.

Originally Posted by Sucer

We won that's it. If I'd known you start bragging if there is any chance to do so I would have played better in distopia. I thought it would be nice to let you have your honor or whatever it is. Nevertheless in my eyes you don't have any honor anymore. I'm sorry.
So if I ever agree to play a cw againts you again... there won't be any honor that I'll let you have. I'll just try to crush you down with my full power.

For sucer is dominus et deus, stronger than he-man, more dashing than superman and can jump further than janne ahonen. Plus he's north side, (-) yeah!

[Filter bypass edit - FQuist]

This conflict starts to be more idiotic then the average match conflict at CS. Ill be watching this topic.

I don't really want to answer on all this. As I am at 's side more like.

Originally Posted by ShadowGPW

This conflict starts to be more idiotic then the average match conflict at CS. Ill be watching this topic.

8-D wants to find a solution , so don't blame us.

shad, just leave it. Sure it's a wee bit funny at times, but up till now very flame free
Which is kinda incredible actually.
Hell if i thought i had won a clanwar and the other side would say otherwise i'd go berserk.
edit: Which doesn't mean you should. I was just applauding you for not acting (too) silly and flaming one another. Well ok to some1 who doesn't care it does look silly, but still.

Anyway a rematch would pwn.

Originally Posted by ShadowGPW

This conflict starts to be more idiotic then the average match conflict at CS. Ill be watching this topic.

Yeah, I guess clanwars weren't really this messy during your times. Especially when you won against that "inexperienced" CC-team.

ehh they were messy, just not on jcf i reckon.
but i must say they were organised as badly as this
Or should i say wars nowadays are organised as badly as then

anyhow you guys should clear up this mess, cuz its silly to play wars and not to know who won.(heh i know, look who's talking i know, but i decided that matter isn't worth discussing anymore)

Tsk. What happened to the olympic spirit of competing being more important than winning Just agree clearly (from what I can tell, you agreed on something, but no one really knew what) on the scoring system before the clanwar. Saves a lot of complaining and grief.