@Violet:
Good point. I never really thought about it, but the JJ3D demo IS technically illegal. So that sems to say it is wrong to get it.
On the flip side of that, it's been leaked for well nigh an eternity, and Epic hasn't cracked down on it, so maybe they really don't care. So maybe it IS okay.
So where does that leave us? Maybe we should elect someone to actually go ask Epic these questions for us and solve this tangled mess! Any takers?
It would certainly bring this debate to a screeching halt. [well, except for morality...]

Just thought id mention this seems Digiex randomly got bought into this. While we dont have official permission to distrubute the game away, Epic very much know about it being on Digiex as it came up in discussions when we were looking at taking over the old unreal list servers and pretty much gave the view point of "We don't care".

I respect J2o's policy, so do not advertise the download on the GIP script or on the forum myself, and so far thats not been a problem. The j2o staff know my contact information so if they want me to further hide it, or remove it from Digiex as a condition for the GIP script, they can easily contact me. Don't really need dermo or unknown rabbit debating it and complaining about it, when there is the proper channels to do so, its not an issue with Digiex as we value working with J2O.

In the past, when Digiex went from being privately funded by myself and another Admin, into a UK registered company generating income via advertising, we complied with J2O's wishes to remove an advert from the GIP script despite our own objections because that advert was covering the costs of hosting a dedicated server 24/7 for the list server for over the past 5 plus years, so we do compromise when needed. And in reference to J2O not having a choice, they can easily switch GIP providers we haven't forcefully locked ourselves as the only provider.

As far as I'm concerned the status quo with regards to the GIP script and it linking to DigiEx is fine. It's been discussed (within J2O) before so I assume Violet and Newspaz are merely commenting on the issue from their personal POV.

Whether we use DigiEx as the GIP provider, that's mostly a technical issue (which of course doesn't mean we don't appreciate Digiex's services), as discussed within the staff forum previously as well...

You should remove direct links to blur's JJ2+ download. Put a link to his website instead, due to legal technicalities.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean for politics to get involved here, I was just trying to point somebody in the right direction when you "morally sound" people immediately freaked about it. So shut up already.

Please continue to use Digital Existance as I am in love with Nimrod and would like his full services to be used, especially if it funds him with such advertising.

...What?

Originally Posted by Dermo

You should remove direct links to blur's JJ2+ download. Put a link to his website instead, due to legal technicalities.

There's nothing illegal about JJ2+ being hosted here since there's no copyrighted code contained within the download. Just the plus library and the patcher.

Originally Posted by Dermo

I'm sorry, I didn't mean for politics to get involved here

Yes you did.

Originally Posted by Sonyk

There's nothing illegal about JJ2+ being hosted here since there's no copyrighted code contained within the download. Just the plus library and the patcher.

It's a program that very much breaches the terms of use for jj2 Not sure if that's the downloader's/hoster's problem as much as it is blur's though

It's interesting how this thread has gone from asking JJ1 prices to discussing how the jj2+ is breaking the law.

It's called "the forums"

Hmm, true.

Originally Posted by Grytolle

It's a program that very much breaches the terms of use for jj2 Not sure if that's the downloader's/hoster's problem as much as it is blur's though

The real question then is if the terms of use are even of legal merit. Some courts might say so and others would say not. There's been precedent protecting Blur, though I can't remember what it was or what jurisdiction that was for.

Originally Posted by [GpW]Urbs

It's called "the forums"

It's almost called 'trolling' now if you ask me..
Seriously, it's alright the way it is now.

1: Epic has listserver forwarding with Digiex, and for now Epic doesn't care about JJ2 being hosted there.

2: Digiex' founders like to host the JJ2 listservers, because they like the game themselves!

3: J2O's policy of not allowing links to download the full game hasn't caused problems in the past, and shouldn't do so now.

4: New members/players seeking a free download for JJ2 aren't going to have a hard time with search engines. Or else a personal contact, different site, or a sneaky little JCF thread with the response 'Google is your friend' will do.

I dare to say that if any Jazz2 fan wants to complain to those 4 little points, I'd say it really comes close to trolling in this thread, imo.

Originally Posted by Sonyk

There's nothing illegal about JJ2+ being hosted here since there's no copyrighted code contained within the download. Just the plus library and the patcher.

It's not the code that makes it illegal, it's the modification of Jazz Jackrabbit 2 in general. Was Blur given permission by Epic to reverse engineer their game? There are specified laws about reverse engineering and creating third-party programs.

Originally Posted by Sonyk

Yes you did.

No I was not, I would NOT want Digiex removed from J2O, it was my last intent. I've found it quite a useful website when I'm on a different PC and don't have my CD with me. So stop trolling with nonsense (at least use something valid to troll with).

And, yes, it would be Blur's problem. But obviously Epic doesn't give an eff about what we do.

It's not the code that makes it illegal, it's the modification of Jazz Jackrabbit 2 in general. Was Blur given permission by Epic to reverse engineer their game? There are specified laws about reverse engineering and creating third-party programs.

What blur does is illegal depending on the country he lives in.

He lives in the same tri-state USA area that I do. It's not legal...

Not legal according to who? Just because something was written in a license agreement almost a decade ago doesn't mean it has any legal merit.

The Epic Classics order form looks pretty good, thanks for pointing that out. I'm not going to download it, and I don't really mind paying $20 for it. Yes, it is a decade-old DOS game, but still, Epic put some effort into it, and just saying "It's old, we can have it for free" doesn't seem quite right to me. Anyway, thanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decompiler#Legality

Blur didn't decompile anything for JJ2+, take my word for it.

If you take everything like that, then the carrot image on the Plusifier icon is ilegal as well, and half of J2O including Newspaz's own avatar image is copyrighted work too. Epic's going to lawsuit us so badly yeah...

I'm just saying where does the moral standards come in? According to the law? J2O is not at any possible risk from Epic because they don't give an eff. However, you can't use base everything on legal grounds considering everything that goes on in this community. And where does a basis for morals come from, if not religion? The law? You guys are breaking it. Or does it come from your heads? Because in my mind, without religion, I feel that murder is the RIGHT/GOOD thing to do. Therefore, why can't I justify murder? The law doesn't have any boundaries here, so I might as well kill you all.

Dermo, take an Ethics class. Or more simply do a Google search for "morality without religion" or something similar. Here for instance is the first result and there are plenty more.

A little carrot icon or some destruct scenery isn't a whole game's worth of time and effort. There's a bit of difference.

Originally Posted by Unknown Rabbit

Dermo, take an Ethics class. Or more simply do a Google search for "morality without religion" or something similar. Here for instance is the first result and there are plenty more.

Okay, that's it. I'm starting a new thread for exactly this kind of discourse...

Does anyone know if the games at EpicClassics come with a box or just a plain cd case?
Also does anybody know where I can find a boxed copy of Jazz Jackrabbit 2? I can only find cd case versions only!

umm, I honestly don't know. They might not be doing the boxed ones anymore, but I do not really know.

hey,

i'm from brazil (so my bad English)
but, i'm searching for a download of Jazz jack rabbit..

I remember that I played this game when I was a child.. and nowadays, I can't find this game to buy or download.

Does anyone know where I can find this download?
thank's

Download: http://www.dutchfurs.com/~haze/blog/...s/pc/shareware
Buy: http://www.epicclassics.com/order.html

Epic Classics is pretty useless for people from Brazil, I'd imagine. Paying the same price for JJ1 as for a brand new game (factoring in shipping costs) seems rather excessive. siih: check your PM inbox.

Just thought I'd say, I ordered JJ1 from epic classics through a friend in the US, and it came with a copy of JJ2. Either way it should arrive in Australia shortly, thanks for the help!

Originally Posted by Obi1mcd

Just thought I'd say, I ordered JJ1 from epic classics through a friend in the US, and it came with a copy of JJ2. Either way it should arrive in Australia shortly, thanks for the help!

Confirmation that they're still in business? Excellent.

Originally Posted by f2bnp

Does anyone know if the games at EpicClassics come with a box or just a plain cd case?
Also does anybody know where I can find a boxed copy of Jazz Jackrabbit 2? I can only find cd case versions only!

Why do you need a box? Haze has a very extensive gallery of boxes, and there are even scans of the manuals availible.

As for you question about epic classics: I only got a CD case when I ordered back in 2000/2001, so chances are it will be the same.