*sigh* All the useful stuff is thrown out while the useless CTF crap wins.

Originally posted by Xion
*sigh* All the useful stuff is thrown out while the useless CTF crap wins.

If you meant your own, even I knew that one. ;P

Originally posted by Xion
*sigh* All the useful stuff is thrown out while the useless CTF (stuff) wins.

Useless? That is actually really cool. And the thing about going through walls...has been done before. ;-P

I would really love to see N0B0DY's level. He must upload it. Unless, that is, it is simply the transparant level thing, in which case that is already commonly known.

~ Traft

Originally posted by Trafton
Useless? That is actually really cool. And the thing about going through walls...has been done before. ;-P

I would really love to see N0B0DY's level. He must upload it. Unless, that is, it is simply the transparant level thing, in which case that is already commonly known.

~ Traft

I doubt he would be rated Runner Up with transulcent tiles.

Originally posted by Blackraptor
Good job everyone. I couldn't enter since I couldn't come up with anything new, but Yay for BlurredD! Choose turtemple!

I have a semi-unfinished version of that somewhere if you'd happen to be interested. ;-P

Blackraptor's probably gonna win... his project works. It's very interesting.

Errrr......Labrat, what exactly are you talking about? I didn't submit anything XD!

Originally posted by URJazz
Yes, BlurredD won for a reason. Oh, and it isn't some CTF thing, he just used it for something to do with CTF, but it can be used elsewhere and is really useful.

Me and trafton were arguing about this last night and this is a question he could not answer: Where? He could not think of any other ways to use this system other than CTF.

Originally posted by Xion
Me and trafton were arguing about this last night and this is a question he could not answer: Where? He could not think of any other ways to use this system other than CTF.

That is not true. I gave examples such as Team Battle.

~ Traft

Originally posted by >Cell<
I have a semi-unfinished version of that somewhere if you'd happen to be interested. ;-P

He does, too. It's mostly bugless, and only missing one thing that I can think of (last I checked).

Originally posted by LAb RaT kiD
Blackraptor's probably gonna win... his project works. It's very interesting.

Last I checked, the science fair was over.

Originally posted by Xion
Me and trafton were arguing about this last night and this is a question he could not answer: Where? He could not think of any other ways to use this system other than CTF.

Believe me, there are ways. Jazz came up with one in a few minutes, even, but I'll let him talk about that if he wants.

Originally posted by Trafton
That is not true. I gave examples such as Team Battle.

~ Traft

That example was not good enough an example for me. If it was something useful in my opinion, and executed correctly, I would have agreed with you.

While BlurredD's "discovery" is neat and all (even though I thought it was common knowledge but whatever) using it as a jail2 alternative is insufficient.

When the level cycles, information on warp targets is not reset.

Originally Posted by URJazz

Yeah I came up with one pretty quick. Trust me it is useful, just hard to think of places to use it. I have a level which I'll show send anyone of you if you PM me your e-mail. It shows how it can be used to replace triggers, possibly lots.

I don't really use triggers...I just make it look nice. That's why I can't make good levels.

UR, I'll send you the PM at this instant, but if it is a CTF-biased level it will hit the trash.

That's an...okay system.

Not very useful for a die roll, not exactly *random* because I rolled a 2 twice in a roll.

Not exactly useful.

Ah, heck, I just remembered something yesterday I could have used to take part here...


Erm..

Is it commonly known that seekers can move through blocks carrying the One Way event?

Originally Posted by URJazz

Xion, I never said that Multiple Warp Targets are useful, not that system. Well that system is useful, but not in most cases, just in a few select ones. Oh, and BTW, it is random. Just because you roll a 2 twice in a row does not mean that it isn't random. I can roll a die and get a number multiple times fairly easily.

Capture the Flag, perhaps? It's junk. Pure junk.

I find it interesting how something that won the science fair, is thought well of by Trafton, has already been seen to have multiple uses, and no unfixable flaws, is pure junk.
And again, believe it or not, if you take a 6 sided die, you CAN roll a "2" twice in a row.

I have changed my mind. Xion is completely correct.

Also, I have decided since start positions can be used in CTF, they are bad. The same goes for every single other event. After all, if they even could possibly be used in CTF, that completely nullifies any possible use they could ever have and makes them not a technical JCS achievement, but a pile of useless nothingness. Senseful, no?

~ Traft

Originally Posted by Trafton

I have changed my mind. Xion is completely correct.

Also, I have decided since start positions can be used in CTF, they are bad. The same goes for every single other event. After all, if they even could possibly be used in CTF, that completely nullifies any possible use they could ever have and makes them not a technical JCS achievement, but a pile of useless nothingness. Senseful, no?

~ Traft

Taffy taffy taffy...

You have my view wrong: Anything associated with CTF is bad, however that does not limit it to being just inside CTF. See, if there was real use of JAIL2 outside of CTF, I would accept it. Since there cannot be any usefulness outside of CTF, and half this community is CTF-biased, they see this as a godsend. I don't see CTF as all that great, but more of a useless piece of coding stuck inside a game.

Jail2 is just another piece of hard work trying to double the greatness of CTF, whereas it, CTF, has no greatness in actuality.

CTF =

"If there was any real use of Jail2"
http://www.jazz2online.com/downloads...p?levelid=1773
(among others...)


Also, there are more uses for CTF's "useless coding" then CTF. Jailbreak, Team Battle, Team Race, Assassination, or anything that's played in CTF mode. The key word is "Team" here.

Originally posted by Xion
Taffy taffy taffy...

Xiony Xiony Xiony...saying my name three times will not make your arguement against the value of JAIL2 any more senseful, at least to me.

You have my view wrong: Anything associated with CTF is bad, however that does not limit it to being just inside CTF.

For instance, start positions? After all, they are much more associated with CTF than JAIL2 is. And you have to have start positions in 100% of CTF levels or they will not run. JAIL2 is used in about 2% of CTF levels at most. So start positions must be fifty times as bad!

See, if there was real use of JAIL2 outside of CTF, I would accept it.

Get ready to accept it or, more likely, deny the evidence that it is useful outside of CTF for some obscure reason. See Violet's post.

Since there cannot be any usefulness outside of CTF, and half this community is CTF-biased, they see this as a godsend. I don't see CTF as all that great, but more of a useless piece of coding stuck inside a game.

Perhaps this community is CTF-biased because they prefer CTF as a gamemode? Besides, "biased" is the wrong word. The community prefers CTF to Battle; they are not biased. Being biased would be preferring something for some reason other than thinking it is better on one's own accord.

Jail2 is just another piece of hard work trying to double the greatness of CTF, whereas it, CTF, has no greatness in actuality.

After all, it would be horrible if it was improved to the point where you actually liked it.

CTF =

No. The logic involved in disliking of JAIL2 only because it can occasionally be used in CTF = .

~ Traft

I still stand by my opinion that a trigger based jail2 is less prone to error than a warp based jail2.

Originally Posted by Trafton

Xiony Xiony Xiony...saying my name three times will not make your arguement against the value of JAIL2 any more senseful, at least to me.


For instance, start positions? After all, they are much more associated with CTF than JAIL2 is. And you have to have start positions in 100% of CTF levels or they will not run. JAIL2 is used in about 2% of CTF levels at most. So start positions must be fifty times as bad!


Get ready to accept it or, more likely, deny the evidence that it is useful outside of CTF for some obscure reason. See Violet's post.


Perhaps this community is CTF-biased because they prefer CTF as a gamemode? Besides, "biased" is the wrong word. The community prefers CTF to Battle; they are not biased. Being biased would be preferring something for some reason other than thinking it is better on one's own accord.


After all, it would be horrible if it was improved to the point where you actually liked it.


No. The logic involved in disliking of JAIL2 only because it can occasionally be used in CTF = .

~ Traft

1) I was using it in (PA).
2) Are start positions ASSOCIATED with CTF? Just because they are used in CTF doesn't make them bad. Jail2 is Associated with CTF because 9/10 times it's more useful.
3) Yes, this community is CTF-biased. They would rather grab a flag and return it to base than to hunt. Your definition is incorrect: Wakeman was biased, but did he ever have a reason?
4) JJ2 CTF = while UT99 CTF =
5) And I have changed my viewpoint about Jail2: With the CTF-biased community, they don't wanna kill for a point, they would rather grab the flag and run it back. Therefore, JAIL2 has no point in being in the world. I have played Assassination, and it is a good idea, except for the fact that it has been executed poorly. Team battle too. JDC should have Battle, while the Clanwars should have Capture. It's just common sence. Treasure, don't ask because it has gone from a weird idea to chatter's paradise.

Actually, This system of JAIL2 has been done already, now that I have seen the physics behind the system. So this is at least 4 months old, yet it still won. The level is Monopoly...an okay version of the game. So N0's should have won since it is new.

Derby: Personal attack edit.

I like CTF because it's a team game. A team game means you can sit there doing nothing and still win.

Originally Posted by Radium

I like CTF because it's a team game. A team game means you can sit there doing nothing and still win.

heh heh. If you sit around and do nothing, your teammate will most likely get ticked off at you, having to do twice as much work.



I think we should have another science fair, I kind of missed this one and I already have a good idea.

Originally Posted by URJazz

OK, the thing about it is that the system was not publically known, and that is the thing that we didn't want, so it was still good. And you do not know if N0's entry was new or not, for all you know it could have been done a year ago. And despite your arguing, it still stands that BlurredD won with that, while it was very close, and the decision was hard to make, BlurredD won over N0B0DY fair and square, Violet and I being the judges. If you cannot accept this, than please post somewhere else, because no matter what you post the winner will remain to be BlurredD. We're not trying ot be biased, but even if you found a way to prove that BlurredDs was bad in some way, we would not take the prize away.

I'm not asking for a change of winning, I'm just speaking my mind.

"Wakeman was biased, but did he ever have a reason?" I'm pretty sure he did. I *think* I remember reading it had something to do with prefering levels having textured background mode on (or not liking if textured backgrounds were turned off, or something to that extent)

I dunno if I'm right, but I don't think my imagination would ever think that up on its own..

EDIT: See Unknown's post below. Explains it better (I thought it was Roaster, but I guess I only remembered one of the "factors")..

Originally Posted by Xion

2) Are start positions ASSOCIATED with CTF? Just because they are used in CTF doesn't make them bad. Jail2 is Associated with CTF because 9/10 times it's more useful.

It is? Jail2 may have started out in CTF, but I have not seen it used in actual CTF mode in a while.

3) Yes, this community is CTF-biased. They would rather grab a flag and return it to base than to hunt.

Out of curiosity, have you ever played CTF? Only one person on each time can have the flag at any given time. The majority of people, even in CTF, spend their time hunting down the other team. Without hunters, your team isn't going to have a very good time of it.

Your definition is incorrect: Wakeman was biased, but did he ever have a reason?

Yes. "Wakeman is Biased" arose from him telling someone (Roaster, I think) how he preferred certain factors of levels to others. You know, like all eight layers being used. So basically he's biased towards better quality.

4) JJ2 CTF = while UT99 CTF =

Is there a difference?

5) And I have changed my viewpoint about Jail2: With the CTF-biased community, they don't wanna kill for a point,

This is a generalization. Also, you don't kill for points in Jail2, you merely kill people to get them out of the way for a bit, increasing your chances of winning.

they would rather grab the flag and run it back. Therefore, JAIL2 has no point in being in the world.

WOW. This is easily the strangest logic I have seen today.

I have played Assassination, and it is a good idea, except for the fact that it has been executed poorly. Team battle too.

They have? You are invited to improve them. We'll like it, assuming they're actually improved, and your idea of improving is not similar to how most people edit Battle1.

JDC should have Battle, while the Clanwars should have Capture. It's just common sence.

I don't know what common sence is, but common sense tells me that JDC can have just about any gametype it likes, while clanwars can have just about any team based gametype. (Bank Robbery! Whee!)

Treasure, don't ask because it has gone from a weird idea to chatter's paradise.

Ummm.... no? Treasure Hunt in itself, collecting gems and going to the exit, is merely a rarely played or created gametype, but with a common non-weird idea. Saying all the various levels that must be played in Treasure mode are Treasure Hunt is like saying that Bank Robbery is CTF, or Hotels are Battle.

Actually, This system of JAIL2 has been done already, now that I have seen the physics behind the system. So this is at least 4 months old, yet it still won. The level is Monopoly...an okay version of the game.

Monopoly? What does Monopoly have to do with different warp targets leading different places? (Also, whose Monopoly level?)

So N0's should have won since it is new.

Actually, it's not, creating it was already known, what N0B0DY did was refine the process.

Derby: Personal attack edit.

Oh no. This one I can not argue with. Perfectly reasonable and all that.

This cannot be resolved, so we might as well just drop it and let it die on it's own.

You are all off-topic. SHAME ON YOU.

I claim the page in the name of "How about a nice big bag of NO?"

In other news, pork. I'm too lazy to try to discover new and interesting things in JCF.

However, I will willingly mooch off of everyone else's successes.

Hooray for useless replies.

Originally Posted by acid

I think we should have another science fair, I kind of missed this one and I already have a good idea.

Since everyone was too busy arguing when I posted this,*COUGHCOUGH* apparently nobody saw it. So I'm posting it again.

Originally Posted by Unknown Rabbit

Out of curiosity, have you ever played CTF? Only one person on each time can have the flag at any given time. The majority of people, even in CTF, spend their time hunting down the other team. Without hunters, your team isn't going to have a very good time of it.

Is there a difference?

1) Yes.

2) There is a difference with the advent of THREE DIMENSIONS! Snipe spots, guard points, and other effects make it a good experience. You can sit back in the base and still win and have it be FUN. JJ2's CTF is...blah. CTF should never be in 2D IMHO. Other than JJ2, have you ever seen a 2D game with a popular CTF mode?

You want CTF fun? UT99 and Tanarus is your place to go.

Originally Posted by Xion

1) Yes.

2) There is a difference with the advent of THREE DIMENSIONS! Snipe spots, guard points, and other effects make it a good experience. You can sit back in the base and still win and have it be FUN. JJ2's CTF is...blah. CTF should never be in 2D IMHO. Other than JJ2, have you ever seen a 2D game with a popular CTF mode?

You want CTF fun? UT99 and Tanarus is your place to go.

Why did you not respond to any of the other points he mentioned that were actually relevant?

~ Traft

Originally Posted by Xion

Snipe spots, guard points, and other effects make it a good experience.

Both of these can very easily be done in JJ2.

You can sit back in the base and still win and have it be FUN.

I begin to see why you dislike CTF, if your idea of a fun game is laying down and letting your team mates do all the work.

JJ2's CTF is...blah.

I don't like CTF either, but do you see me condemning anything that can be used in CTF?

CTF should never be in 2D IMHO.

Yes, well, there are a lot of people who disagree with you.

Other than JJ2, have you ever seen a 2D game with a popular CTF mode?

No, but I've never seen a 2D game with a CTF mode, let alone anything else. JJ2 is just ahead of the field, ok?

You want CTF fun?

Not really.

UT99 and Tanarus is your place to go.

3D? Ick.

Originally Posted by Trafton

Why did you not respond to any of the other points he mentioned that were actually relevant?

~ Traft

Why? Because you are being so (bacon) STUBBORN about it, therefore I figured I best try to wrap up the entire post with answering two main points which all the rest link to.

Okay Unknown: you bring up a good point, JJ2 is the ONLY 2D game wih CTF...other than a few other short-lived games based on the sport of Paintball, but seriously, Isn't CTF best played in 3D?

Also, you can NOT have snipe spots and guard points in JJ2. It's not possible at all. Sorry. Can you point your gun at a downward angle in JJ2? not really. Upward angle? Not at all. Just low, middle, and up. That's all I know about.

How about bouncies, seekers and pepper spray? Those go in many directions.

Originally Posted by Unknown Rabbit

How about bouncies, seekers and pepper spray? Those go in many directions.

yes, true, but you are very limited. Can you shoot directly at somebody at some odd angle in the distance? not really.

CTF is best played 3D, period.

Sorry I'm late, I just got back from vacation.

I will be uploading project hog soonly.

For comming in second place, do I get like half a tileset or somthing?

`N0