Originally posted by Onag
What exactly are you talking about here? Jazz2 was designed with kids around 6-12 in mind. What is your argument? You want Jazz3D to be aimed at older players? Why?

-Nag

It'll sell better that way.

EDIT: Page Claim.

I have one thing to say in response to 'sidescrollers are dead'.
Viewtiful Joe, for GCN. thousands of copies have been imported, reviews give it 10/10. It is an AMAZING sidescroller.
Goodbye.

To me, it seems impossible for the Jazz series to go the way Viewtiful Joe is. Joe is a "regular guy" who can turn into a comic-book type superhero and needs to clear a certain amount of enemies and then is graded and gets coins based on that grade. Jazz is a green rabbit who blows up turtles with purple shells.

EDIT: Typo edit.

GAH! You people are making so many assumptions.

"Most gamers do this" - This is wrong. Just becuase most of the gamers you know do that, or there are lots of those games available of that genre doesn't mean most people enjoy that genre. For example, I myself don't like FPS games too much, and there are a select few that I enjoy.

"2D games look outdated... well, 'cause they are." Since when? If this was really true, nobody would use/buy any of the utilities such as Game Maker, The Games Factory, Multimedia Fusion, etc. Becuase these programs are made for easy 2D game creation. If 2D was outdated, these utilities would be long dead. As far as I can tell, MMF is still going strong.

"No current console has the grunt to efficiently run a fullfledged, current generation 3D editor" - *COUGH COUGH* I happen to own such game. Hypersonic Extreme has a 3D Track maker. If you want to know more about it, just search for "Hypersonic Extreme"

That's as much as I'll correct for now. Fell free to say how wrong I am.

As for JJ3, I like the idea of a Action/Strategy/RPG game. JJ2 Disappointed me in the fact that I never really could make a strategy type situation. I think a nice addition would be having the different types of guns matter more; in JJ2 I favored the blaster over other weapons when I could.

Originally Posted by acid

- "Most gamers do this" - This is wrong. Just becuase most of the gamers you know do that, or there are lots of those games available of that genre doesn't mean most people enjoy that genre. For example, I myself don't like FPS games too much, and there are a select few that I enjoy.

- "2D games look outdated... well, 'cause they are." Since when? If this was really true, nobody would use/buy any of the utilities such as Game Maker, The Games Factory, Multimedia Fusion, etc. Becuase these programs are made for easy 2D game creation. If 2D was outdated, these utilities would be long dead. As far as I can tell, MMF is still going strong.

- "No current console has the grunt to efficiently run a fullfledged, current generation 3D editor" - *COUGH COUGH* I happen to own such game. Hypersonic Extreme has a 3D Track maker. If you want to know more about it, just search for "Hypersonic Extreme"

- That's as much as I'll correct for now. Fell free to say how wrong I am.

- No, with the exception of MMORPG's such as Everquest, the most popular online games are first-person shooters. It's true.

- 2D games look outdated because they lack the detail you can find in 3D games, and given that they can run on antiquated hardware I think this just proves the point. Utilities such as game maker and the games factory aren't used by the gaming industry to produce games for good reason.

- By full-fledged 3D editor I mean an editor that allows for custom 3D-models, on-the-fly rendering of BSP, meshes, lightmaps, etc. I am 99.99% sure that this 'Hypersonic Extreme' editor doesn't have the complexity or functionality of editors such as UnrealEd, GKRadiant, or other map-making tools such as 3DS Max and Lightwave.

- Yes sir.

Originally Posted by KRSplat

To me, it seems impossible for the Jazz series to go the way Viewtiful Joe is. Joe is a "regular guy" who can turn into a comic-book type superhero and needs to clear a certain amount of enemies and then is graded and gets coins based on that grade. Jazz is a green rabbit who blows up turtles with purple shells.

EDIT: Typo edit.

I am not saying Jazz3 should be like Viewtiful Joe, I am saying that sidescrollers are by no means 'dead'. Look at the Megaman series. It is still 2D. Look at most of the recent Sonic games. 2D. And they are selling like crazy. Jazz3 could be 2D, and in my opinion it should be. While I like Unreal and Unreal Tournament, I don't want Jazz to resemble them in any way.

Originally Posted by Black Ninja

I am not saying Jazz3 should be like Viewtiful Joe, I am saying that sidescrollers are by no means 'dead'. Look at the Megaman series. It is still 2D. Look at most of the recent Sonic games. 2D. And they are selling like crazy. Jazz3 could be 2D, and in my opinion it should be. While I like Unreal and Unreal Tournament, I don't want Jazz to resemble them in any way.

*cough* Most recent Sonic games would include Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Adventure, that new Tag-team style one and previous to that, Sonic R. All 3D. *cough*

Who says it would resemble them? It'd just use the same engine. Does Red XIII or whatever that new game look like Unreal? Cause it uses the same engine. ;P

Actually, Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 are not recent. They are just ports. More recent is Sonic Advance 2.
and Sonic R was not the most recent before SA and SA2 ;p

Originally Posted by defalcon

- No, with the exception of MMORPG's such as Everquest, the most popular online games are first-person shooters. It's true.

Then I'm part of the minority.

Originally Posted by defalcon

- 2D games look outdated because they lack the detail you can find in 3D games, and given that they can run on antiquated hardware I think this just proves the point.

http://www.moonpod.com/

Originally Posted by defalcon

-Utilities such as game maker and the games factory aren't used by the gaming industry to produce games for good reason.

You really haven't seen some of the amazing things they can do, then. There have even been 3D (albeit quirky 3D) engines made with Game Maker.

Originally Posted by defalcon

- By full-fledged 3D editor I mean an editor that allows for custom 3D-models, on-the-fly rendering of BSP, meshes, lightmaps, etc. I am 99.99% sure that this 'Hypersonic Extreme' editor doesn't have the complexity or functionality of editors such as UnrealEd, GKRadiant, or other map-making tools such as 3DS Max and Lightwave.

Err, no, it can't have custom models and stuff, but it's pretty impressive anyways.

XIII (no Red. :P) is a cel-shaded game that does not resemble Unreal in any way (other than that they are both 3D.) I didn't know that it used the Unreal engine, but I agree with your point.

I'm going to skip everything said on the 2nd page and just say this. Let's compare JJ to Duke Nukem.
A long, long time ago, Apogee makes these spiffy little sidescrollers about this guy named "Duke."
3D Realms says, "Hey, everyone likes this game, let's just take his attitude and looks and put it into your typical FPS!" Fans of the sidescroller bought it. Some were happy, some were dissapointed.

Now, let's say Duke Nukems attitude and looks and babes were replaced with Jazz Jackrabbits attitude and looks and Eva Earlongs scattered around the level. It would be the same game, only starring Jazz.

Now, IMO, Jazz is not meant to be 3D.
The graphics must, of course, be improved. It could be a sidescroller..Only with 3D graphics. By this I mean awesome lighting effects, awesome graphics, you automatically step around obstacles in the levels. (Ala Kirby 64)

And blood. Yes, blood. As Spaztic said, there should be an option to choose it or not, but perhaps you could type in the amount you wanted.

0% - 100%

None - Massive

Some people like blood, and I'm one of those people. I don't know why, but blowing part of someones head off in SoF2 is extremely entertaining to me. I'm not "sick," seeing as I can't even watch operations in movies without getting queasy.

I kind of wandered off there.

Anyway, the JJ3 demo was pretty good, but still, I would like a "3D" sidescroller.
If you want a FPS, buy one. It doesn't have to be about a freaking green rabbit to be fun.

^NinjA^

Jazz Jackrabbit is not meant to have blood. Picture JJ2 with blood. When you kill someone on online play, they fall into a disgusting mass of guts and blood. You step in it and it splashes.

Sounds like a great game aimed at the younger audience, eh?
We don't need Jazz to be Unreal.

Originally Posted by Ninja

And blood. Yes, blood. As Spaztic said, there should be an option to choose it or not, but perhaps you could type in the amount you wanted.

0% - 100%

None - Massive

Originally Posted by Ninja

And blood. Yes, blood. As Spaztic said, there should be an option to choose it or not, but perhaps you could type in the amount you wanted.

0% - 100%

None - Massive

Some people like blood, and I'm one of those people. I don't know why, but blowing part of someones head off in SoF2 is extremely entertaining to me. I'm not "sick," seeing as I can't even watch operations in movies without getting queasy.

~thaddeus

I really get mad when a 2D game is realesed and is condemed for having 'dated' 2D graphics. There is freaking nothing wrong with 2D, why must every single new game be 3D?! I miss the old days of sidescrollers. Jazz 2 is still an impressive 2D game and I would hardly call it dated. Oh yeah and about JJ3 I think the best bet would be to completly take all gameplay elements from JJ2 convert it to 3D add a few more elements. Ta-dah a traditional Jazz game in 3D that is fun to play and I won't get stuck on like some other unmentionable games.

2d games are the past. They do not sell anywhere close to 3d games, even mods of 3d games sell better then them, and they are free :-p

aka Counter-Strike, TFC, DOD and so on for the Half-Life Engine.


2D lacks exploration and detail into thier games, there are only 4 directions to go in 2d, while in 3d games there a millions and billions, and you cant hide in a 2d game making them lack strategy and/or stealth. A new game is in the designed stage. Jazzer X. It is not jj3 and no where near it. But it is a full 3d game, me and Hare might release some early beta screen shots soon.

Originally Posted by Txl Kill

2d games are the past. They do not sell anywhere close to 3d games, even mods of 3d games sell better then them, and they are free :-p

First of all, how can something free be sold? And if you mean downloaded, that does not count. Obviously, free things would sell better than things that cost money. And, for that matter, where do you get your statistics?

aka Counter-Strike, TFC, DOD and so on for the Half-Life Engine.

Counter-Strike is free? That is one step closer, however; I would have to be paid to play that game. ;-P

2D lacks exploration and detail into thier games, there are only 4 directions to go in 2d, while in 3d games there a millions and billions, and you cant hide in a 2d game making them lack strategy and/or stealth.

Two-dimensional games do not need to lack exploration. In fact, in many cases, they make room for them. Just because you can not go in any direction than left and right does not mean there can be large levels or packs where there are many levels to explore. And anyone who says that you can not hide in a 2D game probably has never played some of the best Jazz 2 players. What makes you unable to hide? In a level that is 300x300 32 pixil square tiles on a 640x480 screen, you can be fifteen screens apart at any given time. Sure, you may not be able to duck or go off on an alternative passage, but most good levels allow for strategies found in the best of 3D games. Besides, comparing 3D games to 2D games is unfair. It is like the Verzion advertisement that promotes Verizon as "the only service to offer genuine Verzion DSL!" Sure, 2D games may be simplistic. However, that does not stop them from having good graphics, either. Save for the 3D effects, nearly anything you see in DirectX9 games (or would if any notable ones really existed) can be done in a 2D game. It is simply that, because 2D games do not necessarily make as much money as 3D games, they are rarely allotted the same amount of money and time. 3D shooter games make a lot of money, but there are not as many great 3D genres. Besides shooters and some occasional RPG or strategy games, most non-shooter games end up best as either aerial view-based games (mostly RPGs) or 2D games. 2D games are often simply and intended to be. Some people simply do not enjoy constant loud gun-shooting and insults from someone named ~+XtReMeHaCkAkId2003+~. 2D games oftentimes feel more personal and, while in an age where movie earnings are nearly equal in ratio to the number of explosions they feature or cause it may sound odd, sometimes playing a game where pausing to scratch your nose will not get you killed seventeen times before you can get your hand back on the mouse is actually fun.

~ Traft

Meh. There are actually some things 2D can do that 3D can't, in my opinion. I'm thinking Puzzle games. We have a whole bunch of top-down games viewing a board of some sort, where you need to use strategy to win. Sure, there are the same games with 3d Objects and an Isometric view, but can you really make it full-3d? I think if someone really did try to make these puzzle games really full-3D, it would detract from the playing value somewhat.

2D is in no way dead. If you look at Gamehippo, you'll see that plenty of the games there are in 2D. If you say that 3D games have better graphics, then I suggest you look at Starscape. There are plenty of examples that 2D, if not still going strong, is far from dead.

I'd rather be playing a 2d game with 3d-rendered graphics than controlling a 3d character that looks so low-poly that enemies whould get hurt touching him.

2d games are better, because there's simply too many 3d ones. If you're making a game, you should strive to make it the best in it's catagory. If you can't make the best 3d game, it would be better to make the best 2d game than to make "just another" 3d game.

*sigh* In terms of being a high-enterprise, cash-making genre, 2D games are dead. Accept it; there are some 2D games here and there, but none that are revolutionary.

And Radium, most games nowadays have 1000's of poly's just for the weapon models. Get a new computer. ;P

Originally Posted by defalcon

And Radium, most games nowadays have 1000's of poly's just for the weapon models. Get a new computer. ;P

Low poly games still pwn this world, and most kids are too stupid to notice. And you used apostrophes in irrelevant places.

And my computer's fine. Even if my 3d card was made in '98.

'pwn', though internet slang, isn't a word Mr Grammar. One misplace apostrophe, sue me. ;P

1998...that'd make it what...a TNT2? Voodo5?

Originally Posted by defalcon

1998...that'd make it what...a TNT2? Voodo5?

Well, the last driver was made in 1998. I don't know if it was.

id rather play a full 3d game with high poly models that looks perfect... rather then a bunch of dots that look kinnnda like a rabbit.

Originally Posted by Txl Kill

id rather play a full 3d game with high poly models that looks perfect... rather then a bunch of dots that look kinnnda like a rabbit.

a bunch of DOTS?!? What screen resolution do you have, 64 x 48? In that case, you wouldn't like 3D games very much either. If you have a screen resolution high enough for 3D games to look perfect, then 2D games should look seamless as well. And if 2D looks like a bunch of dots scrambled on the screen looking vaguely like objects, then 3D games should look like that too, considering both are made of the same thing: PIXELS.

Originally Posted by acid

What screen resolution do you have, 64 x 48?

DON'T DISS 64x48!! )<

Originally Posted by Radium

Low poly games still pwn this world, and most kids are too stupid to notice. And you used apostrophes in irrelevant places.

And my computer's fine. Even if my 3d card was made in '98.

Very true, someone installed DOOM on the computers at school and everyone thinks its the coolest game ever .