Originally Posted by Jimbob

it's going to use aws_cave.xm for music.

Wonder if you got that idea from my level, 04 of Memories 2 uses that exact music.

Remember how I said that it got me inspired? ;p

Yes, but I didn't think you would be using it that fast. It's a good piece of music though ;P

Looks good, try to avoid making your levels so platformy and try to make it more solid (fat masks). Otherwise, nice EC. Secondly, it's not that wrong to use a same music file is it? Because then, I'm just suckish. ;[

But that's just the end of a path. It's kinda hard not to make that area look platformy.

Originally Posted by Ragnarok

Secondly, it's not that wrong to use a same music file is it? Because then, I'm just suckish. ;[

No, there's nothing wrong with using the same music file. ;p

Originally Posted by Ragnarok

try to avoid making your levels so platformy

Yeah man, its not like this game is a platformer or anything.
Actually if this is the general design philosophy I may have finally realized why I don't like multiplayer all that much.

Originally Posted by n00b

Yeah man, its not like this game is a platformer or anything.
Actually if this is the general design philosophy I may have finally realized why I don't like multiplayer all that much.

It's the design philosophy of people that don't realize that not having platforms invariably leads to levels either taking place in caves or buildings, or levels with gigantic open areas which overpowers doublejump/coptering.

Originally Posted by n00b

Yeah man, its not like this game is a platformer or anything.
Actually if this is the general design philosophy I may have finally realized why I don't like multiplayer all that much.

Uhh whatever dude.

Seriously, though, w/e at n00b.
Anyways, well, the level is going really nicely and there's one thing to say about it: it's going to be symmetrical. Also, I haven't placed any events yet (other than springs and some MP starts), of course.

Alright, I'm still not getting this: What is so wrong with platformy design?

It makes it either too easy or too hard to get around the level. Also, the people generally don't like platformy level layouts because they can get too random.
Anyways: after adding some cool eyecandy:

Also, this time I won't show you 34976 pictures that spoil it for you.

That level looks awsome.
The tileset is awsome too. Is it hard to use ?

Um... sort of.

Originally Posted by n00b

Alright, I'm still not getting this: What is so wrong with platformy design?

When I refer to "platformy" design, I'm saying the platform placements had little or no intended purpose to enhance the gameplay and were just added randomly. Also, levels that aren't so platformy are harder to learn and are usually more strategical, as is evident from battle1. In level design, it's not so much about making perfect levels but what can be done to enhance the level further and further, so even if platformy levels are good, levels that are not so platformy can be BETTER.

Originally Posted by Eigus

I think I've seen this background somewhere before...

Especially people with no talent for levelmaking should plan their levels and spend time on them.

Originally Posted by FireSworD

When I refer to "platformy" design, I'm saying the platform placements had little or no intended purpose to enhance the gameplay and were just added randomly. Also, levels that aren't so platformy are harder to learn and are usually more strategical, as is evident from battle1. In level design, it's not so much about making perfect levels but what can be done to enhance the level further and further, so even if platformy levels are good, levels that are not so platformy can be BETTER.

I was referring to Rag's post which was in reference to Jimbob's image which didnt seem random at all, but ok. The game itself is based around two characters comprised mostly of moves that are meant to move about platforms, by axing those it seems to be crippling the gameplay mechanincs instead of embracing them. Its like saying "All right, we have a Sonic game but we're going to make the level design completely negate his speed and spindash". I'm not saying that levels should be made of nothing but floating platforms as that'd be rather bland, but if the image Jimbob posted is what constitutes as "too platformy" and thus constitutes what should be "avoided" then I don't think the current level design philosophy is headed 100% in the right direction (not saying its extremely off the mark, only just a tad bit so).

Granted, this is speaking as someone who is a full on platformer fan who also always found SBv2 to be an extremely dull level to play in and always found many common design ideas to be rather odd whereas the rest of the fanbase may be using influences from different genres and their design choices feel right to them and others since thats what they're a fan of. So theres really no right or wrong to this situation (at least the way I perceive it, judging from a response or two some people are completely misinterpreting what I'm asking). Also Rag, could you repost your answer if it wasn't a complete retread of Firesword's response? I'm rather interested in reading the various opinions on design here.

Very well, there's nothing wrong with platformy designs, and I did not mean that his level was platformy, I just meant to try to avoid making platforms everywhere. Well, as having many platforms usually leads to open layouts or just very random layouts. But however, (btw I'm not implying that the level had pointless platforms) you should never make a platform that serves no purpose as it's just pointless. Imagine a CTF level (I'm not sure exactly what you like to see) with a bunch of platforms. I understand this is a platform game and I see where you are coming from, but you should always design a level in the best interest of what the level's purpose is, in most cases gameplay. Anyway, as I was saying, a CTF level with a bunch of platforms. The platforms should all link somehow and lead to different places rather than leading to dead ends or serving no purpose whatsoever. (again not implying your level)

I admit that I design many platforms in my levels but at the same time I make sure I dont do it pointlessly or too much. If I design a platform, it usually provides some form of strategic advantage over something else such as height to allow bouncers to bombard campers at base even just a powerup to just divert attention around the level (which can be done perfectly well with a solid layout (but this is besides the point(right?))).

I think you took one word or phrase and took it slightly seriously or the wrong way, as I do not think platformy levels are bad, look at BBlair for example, there are random platforms everywhere, but that does not make it a bad level. Some levels just are good like that, but it's easier to pull off solid layouts and they usually serve as more strategic layouts too as well as easy to learn as FS said.

On top of this, I generally prefer very solid layouts as do many others. Your way of responding to what I said may be correct, as I might not have needed to use the word "so" in my response which therefore led you to think I meant the level was too platformy, which then led to this very heated debated (olol heated). {dam, wrong brackets}.

Well that was a lovely little discussion and I've walked away a bit more understanding of things. Yay.

Good times. I enjoyed that. Let's do it again some time.

Originally Posted by Ragnarok

I've contemplated it for several other races, for frogs and birds, this level probably won't include that feature, here's a question, does anyone actually think I should try a bird/frog race?

y me!!!

oh nm

Jimbob's style at least deviates from all standards, so he's somewhat original...
But is he something else?

(Also, angular leaf formations on trees is INADVISABLE)

While we're at it on the EC, those tree trunks seem to be floating in midair.

Same for the platforms.

Maybe you could put that in an article n00b and rag.

Originally Posted by Unhit

y me!!!

oh nm

;[. I can make it. ];

Originally Posted by Speeza

Maybe you could put that in an article n00b and rag.

And uhh, what might you be referring to? (Random guess here The pros and cons of platformy/solid levels? o.o

indeed.

You can't really make standard guidelines for level layouts (or gameplay-systems), because there's so much variation and all kinds of styles can work. (From DW to BBlair to Semi)

i changed a few things in my level ^_^
i hope u like this original theme of diamondus.

Enjoy

Its really nice , I like the purple background .
This tileset is so overused.

Your traits lie elsewhere, 'ful.

i always liked The diamondus set..
but i saw this overusing to, so that's why i used the normal version with Garden Pallette... and i try to be original

** Btw, Emp. i don't get what u mean, it feels like u really think (just like the previous time) this level is kinda (-) piece. It's not forbidden to say.. but just say it not so complicated

Oooh nice, but lol (-)(-)(-) is up with spaz's face? XD

Have you never seen the idle animations?

Indeed , like the one on my sig looks pretty good. Looks like a cop :P.
But I like faws levels

thx speeza

jimbob: Well, i just were standing over there and i did printsreen, later in paint i saw i actually did it better than i thought because of the animation.
it looks like = WEE WEE, LOOK AT THE LEVELNAME or sth.. xD.
lol nvm .

Originally Posted by St. Louis

Your traits lie elsewhere, 'ful.

stop discouraging people. :/

that screen looks nice, faw

Just trying to lead them down a path they're at least distantly prepared for.

Originally Posted by St. Louis

Just trying to lead them down a path they're at least distantly prepared for.

jj2 needs more active levelmakers.. you should not discourage people like that. i mean, behavior like that can make other people discouraged aswell.. like me for example :/

Hold on. Give fawful more time to develop before coming to such conclusions.