I've been playing JJ2 for a while, and wanted to see if I could get a hold of JJ1. I looked it up on Ebay, and the top result was "Jazz JackRabbit Trilogy PC CD Classic Arcade Game RARE" for $85, and another for $115, which was a LOT more than I expected. I also noticed that there are different versions, and couldn't find anything on the wiki about them. My questions are: A. What version is the 'best' to look for? and B. Is it going to cost me $100?

Not if you buy from http://www.epicclassics.com/.

For $25? That's still a lot for such an old game.

Is it the same "Jazz JackRabbit Trilogy" as seen here?

That ebay auction is both ridiculous and a bad example.

The floppy version only has six episodes (An episode a disk, if I remember correctly)

The CD version you get from Epic Classics (Perhaps the simplest way to get your hands on a original copy) will have all six episodes plus three bonus ones and Holiday Hare '94.

The trilogy, like the name suggests, contains only the first three episodes and is generally a waste of money.

If you want JJ1 for free, it is possible to find it on abandonware sites, but forum rules prohibit us from telling you where (Basically, you are on your own there)

Wow! That just seems like way too much money. Think anyone could find it for grabs as a downloadable game?

To be honest, even though Jazz1 is old and you need extra software to run it (dosbox). I still think 25 USD is a pretty good price, especially for a collector. For those 25 USD you get 9 episodes, each of which contain 6 normal levels, 3 bonus levels, a boss level and a secret level. That's 11 levels per episode, which comes down to like 25 cents a level.

Plus memorable music files, animated cutscenes, and stuff to try out J1E on.

Some publishers like 'Best Buys' had the CD version in retail stores (after JJ2's release) for around $10 or even less, depending on the store. I picked up a copy of that around 2002 because I only had the floppy version (thus no bonus episodes). I do remember some minor differences in the CD version though, like this 'airboard glitch' on the Medivo level, which didn't happen in the floppy version. I also remember the Tubelectric 1 level had a slightly different ending part on the floppy version.

Still, can't say $25 is a bad price, especially for the 'original of the originals' Epic CD version.

Originally Posted by Newspaz

To be honest, even though Jazz1 is old and you need extra software to run it (dosbox). I still think 25 USD is a pretty good price, especially for a collector. For those 25 USD you get 9 episodes, each of which contain 6 normal levels, 3 bonus levels, a boss level and a secret level. That's 11 levels per episode, which comes down to like 25 cents a level.

I got 9 episodes and HH94 for less than that. Don't really know because it was a gift for my (10th) birthday but I'm sure it wasn't $25.

Originally Posted by LovetoJazz

Wow! That just seems like way too much money. Think anyone could find it for grabs as a downloadable game?

I looked into this a while ago, but the results are disappointing: http://www.anunrelatednote.com/?p=52

Why aren't these games digitally available yet? The demand seems to be in place, so related parties are bound to make a few more bucks this way on these relatively old titles.

I'd strongly encourage anyone who hasn't done so yet vote for the Jazz Jackrabbit titles be released in some sort of downloadable form. Especially GOG.com seems like a likely candidate; go to their wishlist page, search for the Jazz Jackrabbit entries and nominate them for a release. (though it's odd to see requests for Holiday Hare 94 and 95 on there, as they were released for free as shareware episodes)

[link removed] ~ShadowGPW

Run it with dosbox

If it were legal to upload that pack to a website, wouldn't someone have already uploaded it to J2O?

Why pay for it when you can have it for free?

Originally Posted by Dermo

Why pay for it when you can have it for free?

Same reason people buy Atari consoles when they could just get an emulator. Some people value the real thing a lot more I suppose. Some people also like to own the box etc.

Oh and bragging rights !

i didnt upload that link, its from an israeli abandonware site, if anyone did anything illegal its that site, plus its a classic who pay for those

We don't support this. Removed the link.

Q.E.D.

Anyway, it's dangerous to download something from those kind of websites. Very often you download some kind of malware, together with the game. That's usually the only advantage of hosting abandonware websites.

In that Israeli site there are JJ2CC, JJ3 Alpha Demo and JJ2, too. Of course it isn't legal!

I love Digiex. It's so convenient. There's a link to their site on the GIP script.

Just saying...

Originally Posted by Dermo

I love Digiex. It's so convenient. There's a link to their site on the GIP script.

Just saying...

[sarcasm]Nice to see a site J2O endorses hosts warez. Good job guys.[/sarcasm]

Yea, their Download Center also hosts many exclusive files for Xbox 360 owners.

Just saying...

I've tried to bring that up before, but all I could manage was to get the "Jazz2Online neither takes responsibility for nor specifically endorses any content appearing on [Digiex]" disclaimer added. I'm not sure we really have a choice in terms of Games in Progress list providers.

What's wrong with that anyways? Stop being a loser about it.

Originally Posted by Dermo

What's wrong with that anyways? Stop being a loser about it.

It's not so much about being "hip", "cool" or a "loser" but for people like me, who maintain websites, and the people who run J2O it has everything to do with covering ourselves in a legal sense.

See, despite its age the Jazz Jackrabbit titles and franchise are still copyrighted and trademarked. This means that Epic Games or any remnants of previously related parties such as Orange Games, Project2 Interactive or Gathering of Developers can hound us or even drag us to court if we're doing something with their games that they don't like. Distributing the games is so far a very big no-no, as "abandonware" has no legal meaning in this case (Epic Games, the primary developer is still very much an active company and still holds the bulk of the rights to the titles) and unlike other Epic titles such as OMF 2097 none of the games have been declared free-to-distribute by the developers.

We keep on asking them though, more out of habit and a false hope, especially because it's such a popular franchise. And if only they would provide us with a legal alternative, such as selling the games through GoG or Steam, we wouldn't even have to deal with this mess!

Now Epic so far doesn't bat an eye to illegal distribution of the Jazz Jackrabbit video games. But neither did Sierra, when people made fan sequels to their King's Quest games. Then Sierra changed their minds and just like that all the hard work that went into making these fan sequels went up in smoke, with threats of legal action if fans pursued their endeavors. And that's the kind of risk we just don't want to run, after all the hard work we put into our sites and into the community.

Sure, "abandonware" will keep on existing and we're not here to stop it. We just don't want to get associated with it publicly, that's all. Besides other sites such as private torrent trackers and even Google will yield far better results if you know what you're looking for.

Hello Haze. I haven't seen you in a while :P

Down to business:

Although I see what you're saying, the effort the team puts into keeping JJ2 from being distributed illegally is very well-noted. I believe one of the main reasons this community isn't growing is due to the fact that obtaining a copy of JJ2 is really difficult, for those who know about the game. I feel as if the community is WAY too uptight when it comes to Warez and morals (and most you people don't even believe in God).

I just don't understand why you would think you're under such threat when everybody here is a supporter, nobody's out to get you and this game is not that widely popular to begin with. The more fan base it has, the more incentive I believe Epic would have to develop this game further.

Furthermore, I would also like the denote that those who have downloaded JJ2 generally go forth and buy a copy. This is mostly because of how addicting the game is, and for collective reasons. Unfortunately, low supply keeps the prices high. By offering it to members, you are simply promoting the game and encouraging more people to play it which would, in turn, raise the demand for the game anyways. IDK it just doesn't make sense to me how uptight the community is about "warez" when it comes to this kind of thing. The game is being hosted on another network. J2O provides no direct links to any type of warez.

Ah yes, because only the religious can have morals.

Originally Posted by Shelly

i didnt upload that link, its from an israeli abandonware site, if anyone did anything illegal its that site, plus its a classic who pay for those

Originally Posted by Dermo

Why pay for it when you can have it for free?

See my previous post:

If you want JJ1 for free, it is possible to find it on abandonware sites, but forum rules prohibit us from telling you where (Basically, you are on your own there)

You want to bootleg it, fine, but as stated by Haze, we don't want any part of it.

Yes Stijn, but how does that explain humanity's basic concept of right and wrong (and don't bother to tell me it doesn't exist, because we both know what an outrageous lie that is.)?
But we digress.
Back on Track...
I think a few people did say this, that JJ2 is hard to procure. Well, I bought my copy in 2005 on eBay for twenty or thirty bucks, so don't go around saying it's too hard to get. (I will concede, though, that I had to do some digging before I found it.)
As for JJ1, I found a version for DOSbox that works pretty well, so they do exist. Can't remember the link to it, though. Probably better that way.
I agree with Haze or whoever said it that the game would grow much more popular if it could be procured more easily. However, giving it away ourselves would only make this problem worse. Not only would legal action swamp J2O, but it would discredit the high decency standard this esteemed site has maintained. What's next? Warez Starcraft?
I think one should only have to resort to free copies if the original is
A: either too hard to find or else unavailable, or
B: it's beyond reason to. . .No, that's pretty much it.
The bottom line, I guess, is that if you want the game badly enough, get it the right way and do your best to avoid getting a free copy.
The only reason I have a free copy is because Epic was supposed to send me a copy of Jazz 1 with my copy of Jazz 2 (Which I DID come by honestly), and they didn't. I wasn't able to reach them to ask them to send a copy of it, so I was kinda cheated. But that's a special case. I suppose.
Before I upload this comment (no pun intended), I want to take a moment to thank the admins and officiators of J2O and the JCF for the fantabulous and amazing job they have done in maintaining this site's integrity and making it a genuinely fun place to be. Hats off to you!

Originally Posted by PT32

Yes Stijn, but how does that explain humanity's basic concept of right and wrong (and don't bother to tell me it doesn't exist, because we both know what an outrageous lie that is.)?

...so people can't just inherently have a feeling of goodwill towards others and respect their rights and property? Stop the world, I want to get off.

Originally Posted by PT32

I think a few people did say this, that JJ2 is hard to procure. Well, I bought my copy in 2005 on eBay for twenty or thirty bucks, so don't go around saying it's too hard to get. (I will concede, though, that I had to do some digging before I found it.)

If you had to do some digging five years ago, why do you think it's still that easy?

Originally Posted by PT32

What's next? Warez Starcraft?

Wait what?

Originally Posted by PT32

The only reason I have a free copy is because Epic was supposed to send me a copy of Jazz 1 with my copy of Jazz 2 (Which I DID come by honestly), and they didn't. I wasn't able to reach them to ask them to send a copy of it, so I was kinda cheated. But that's a special case. I suppose.

There is so much flawed logic here it hurts my religion.

Originally Posted by Sonyk

...so people can't just inherently have a feeling of goodwill towards others and respect their rights and property? Stop the world, I want to get off.

But where's the basis for right and wrong? And what's to stop you? The law?

Originally Posted by Sonyk

If you had to do some digging five years ago, why do you think it's still that easy?

He never stated that it would be any easier. I would also like to state that a lot of people wouldn't want to put $20 or $30 (I'm guess USD) towards an old game. Especially if they're new and have never played it before. And the Shareware wasn't all that inviting to begin with...

Originally Posted by Sonyk

Wait what?

LOL you see... I just don't care. We pretty much ARE jj2 at this point, we ARE the community, we ARE the reason this game has ANY popularity at all. We're the reason it has online play, we're the reason there's a list server... We're everything behind everything with it right now. This whole Warez thing has gotten ridiculous for that reason. It's bad enough that we can't get the sourcecode, but we can't even have a COMMUNITY growth? I'm really starting to get angry @ Epic for Epically failing at life. Seriously. J2O hosting Jazz Jackrabbit 2 would be like Microsoft hosting Windows 95 for free download. It is the only life the game has. (I know this has nothing to do with the above quote, I'm sorry. I don't even know what PT32 was trying to get at).

Originally Posted by Sonyk

There is so much flawed logic here it hurts my religion.

Noooo... he downloaded as a backup copy, where's the flaw?

Yes Stijn, but how does that explain humanity's basic concept of right and wrong (and don't bother to tell me it doesn't exist, because we both know what an outrageous lie that is.)?

You're going a little deeper here than this topic warrants I guess, but I think you'll find that there's a surprisingly small amount of taboos and social rules that apply to all cultures on this planet.

Anyway, I really don't get the comments about how hard it is to find a free download of JJ1 or JJ2. For JJ2, you basically enter the most obvious search query for that into google, and choose the first result (I'll leave it to you to figure out what the query is.) For JJ1 you'll have to do a tiny bit more work and look past the various places to download the shareware version, but it's still not all that difficult to find. Blaming J2O for inhibiting the community's growth by making it hard to download JJ1 or 2 is just silly. If people want to download it, they can use any search engine and find out where. If they want to buy it, J2O offers a "where to buy" guide.

J2O doesn't endorse direct links to places where to download the games because - as far as I can tell - it's illegal and - this may be more personal - we believe they are games worth paying for. If that doesn't float your boat, fair enough, but you're on your own for finding a place to acquire the games then. Which, as said, isn't all that hard anyway.

Uhm OK...
1st thing is 1st - I get the whole "let's not post warez links" rule. I really do. But don't try to sell property rights as the alfa and omega of fairness. Sure it's illegal to download stuff that you haven't payed for, but the if something is illegal it isn't necessary immoral.

But like I said, nothing wrong with the rule.

What does shock me, however, is the fact that people need to be told what link to click in order to download some piece of software or a movie. Ever heard of google? I mean, what are you, all a bunch of "protestan work ethic" fanatics? Don't you ever download any illegal stuff? And even if you don't download illegal stuff, you do use google right? I mean seriously, if you wan't to download something you don't need to come to this forum to be able to download it. Unless ur over 70 and have a hard time finding the right button combination for @.
So in that respect, the whole policy of "no warez" is sorta silly, cuz you won't prevent people from downloaing illegal stuff. It's like parents who don't talk about alcohol and drugs to their kids, because they hope that if they don't bring it up, the kid won't abuse drugs. Yup, that'll work. So, all I'm saying is, I hope we have this policy in order to have good relations with Epic and not because we believe it's moral and/or that it stops people from downloading jj2/jj1/pr0n/3d pr0n illegally. Because it doesn't, unless if they're completely incompetant in which case they should pay for every mp3 and movie out there, because they're most likely CEO's, overpaid bureaucrats or politicians.

Oh and, 25 dollars isn't a lot for jj1 - one legendary friggin game.

Originally Posted by [GpW]Urbs

Oh and, 25 dollars isn't a lot for jj1 - one legendary friggin game.

It is for an ancient DOS game. Nobody's even heard of it, it's not "legendary." Doom's not even "legendary." The only people who would value such an item are community members. The game wasn't an inspiration, rather it was more a clone of Sonic; with a gun. Not worth $25 IMO. Seriously, try walking up to somebody on the streets of a city and offering them that game telling them it's "legendary" and only $25. See how many hits you get. Nobody would even bother trying to rob you for it...

Originally Posted by Dermo

It is for an ancient DOS game. Nobody's even heard of it, it's not "legendary." Doom's not even "legendary." The only people who would value such an item are community members. The game wasn't an inspiration, rather it was more a clone of Sonic; with a gun. Not worth $25 IMO. Seriously, try walking up to somebody on the streets of a city and offering them that game telling them it's "legendary" and only $25. See how many hits you get. Nobody would even bother trying to rob you for it...

Without Jazz we wouldn't have seen Unreal. Jazz saved Epic MegaGames. So for some people it's a legendary game or an inspiring one. perhaps it's not for you, but leave the people in value that do care about it.

Ok. Maybe I used the world legendary a bit too rash. But then again, as shadow pointed out, it's all relative, isn't it?
I mean if you like arcade games, it's friggin awesome. And although it might be a clone of some other arcade games, it's a darn good one. I mean, epic didn't just take ideas from one game, jj2 has elements of more games than just sonic. I mean, sonic with a gun? what more could you wish for.
I mean for me, it was love at first sight. You could run like hell and shoot. I mean Mario was all about making that jump, or stomping someone and evading something/someone, which is OK I guess, but I prefered raw action. Sonic is one of my fav characters ever, but I never liked the games as much.
And don't get me started on the theme song
Or the absolutely yummy 3d bonus levels.
Plus, epic classics isn't for Joe the Plummer - they play FIFA(or NBA if they're american) and Halo and whatever else the gaming industry deems the general public should play. If you're into games from the 90's, you're a gaming conneseur. You're the gaming equivalent to people who watch James Cagney movies, or legendary Hitchock and Kubrick creations. Maybe JJ1 won't go down in history in the same category as Doom, but it's deifnitely in our hearts and I'd sooner pay 25 bucks for JJ1 than for some new world war 2 FPS. To each their own. But I seriously doubt epic classics were set up for the general public. And alhtough 25 bucks isn't cheap, it isn't that bad.

One could be a bit critical of Epic though, cuz some other companies (former Shiny studios for example) have put their games old games up on their webpages, so you can download them (Sacrifice for 9.99 dollars). In that respect, I can feel all those people who think 25 is too much - cuz Sacrifice is friggin awesome. But you know, nobody's perfect, although jj1 got close

And when Newspaz gets done with the add-ons it's gonna be friggin outa dis world

A nice strategy from epic would be to put their old games (say, all games from jj1 to ut99) up on their webpage and then you could download them if you would be willing to pay anything upwards from one dollar. i'm sure there would be quite a couple of downloads. But i'd still keep the classics division, for people who want CD's and extra goodies.

jj1 and gpw 4 life))

J2O doesn't endorse direct links to places where to download the games because - as far as I can tell - it's illegal and - this may be more personal - we believe they are games worth paying for. If that doesn't float your boat, fair enough, but you're on your own for finding a place to acquire the games then. Which, as said, isn't all that hard anyway.

[non-sarcasm]Good reaction, thumbs up.[/non-sarcasm]

Originally Posted by [GpW]Urbs

...A nice strategy from epic would be to put their old games (say, all games from jj1 to ut99) up on their webpage and then you could download them if you would be willing to pay anything upwards from one dollar. i'm sure there would be quite a couple of downloads. But i'd still keep the classics division, for people who want CD's and extra goodies.

Ahh, but it all comes down to money. Which would you rather do, sell a game to diehard fans for $20, or give the game to just anybody for $5? It's bad business to do that, never mind the semantics.
Personally, though, I do think it should be easier to get the game.

Maybe so. If they charged less, people wouldn't be as driven to download it. But I didn't see a need to pay $25 freakin dollars for an ancient DOS game... They shouldn't make people NEED to pirate it, they're idiots. But then again, there are also the idiots who actually pay the $25 for the game as well -_- Free(k) Market at work.

And we want to talk about legality? Now hang on...

I'm pretty sure the TOS said something along the lines of:

You may not: modify, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the software, create derivative works based on the software...

That's not word for word, since I can't seem to locate my original box right now...

Originally Posted by Dermo

It is for an ancient DOS game. Nobody's even heard of it,

Okay, so, I dare you to do a google search for Jazz Jackrabbit sometime. Except look at the sites that aren't download sites. Notice how, every single time it comes up in a forum topic of old games that someone used to play, people jump on it and say how great and what a part of their childhood Jazz was? Same in other, non-forum contexts? Essentially, anyone who was around for PC gaming in 1994 or not long thereafter is going to know about it. JJ1 was the next big release from one of the two PC gaming titans at the time -- it didn't just slip under the radar. You also stated that the shareware "wasn't all that inviting to begin with," and, you know, that was and is also patently untrue.

I, for one, think it is very confusing how we are trying to argue about several different points and often using arguments about one point against arguments about another. Here is what I have noticed:

• Is $25 a fair price for JJ1?
• What is morality? (o.O)
• Is it possible to find sites to download Jazz games at without J2O providing links to them?
• For that matter, at this point is it possible to find sites to buy Jazz games from legally?
• Should J2O link to and endorse illegal downloads?

Regarding the last question, there is also the matter of "if not, why not?" If we justify the removal of warez links on grounds of legality, then, as I think Dermo was trying to point out, why do we permit so many things which outright violate the TOS? If we justify it on grounds of availability, because we think the games are worth buying, then where does that leave 1.00g, 1.10o, and any (either?) version of the JJ3 alpha?

I have to agree with dermo to a point, although I don't feel 25 dollars is a lot for JJ1, it also isn't pocket change.
I mean, look at how ID software treats it's past. Their doom app for iPhone is one of the most downloaded apps evah. They made quakelive out of q3a and I can tell you, if UT99 was generally considered as better (because of all the extra goodies and because it was just more user friendly) than q3a, quakelive is starting to change that historical perception. Whilst quakelive is gettin q3a players back and even attracts new ones, Epic seems to be more focused on other things.
I mean don't get me wrong, I luv their game engines, and I always root for Unreal technology as opposed to ID technology (for no logical reason other than the fact i play Jazz 1,2, 3d), but come on, if you're not gonna make UTlive, then at least make stuff open source, will ya? Or I dunno, make an epic classics page with a principle pay as much as you think is fair. Seems to work for wiki.
And although I forgot the name of the game, I know a firend of mine showed me how much a couple of guys who made a game made by contributions. They're friggin millionaires. And don't tell me hosting a server (or you can make it torrent based like blizzard has done for its sc2 vids), would cost more than what you'd make by selling these truly legendary games (one must fall, jj1, ut99, unreal, maybe even 2003, do they dare?).
I think it would be a great PR gesture, which by itself makes it a good business move (servers can't cost that much, can they?), and it might just shock them to see how much people are actually used to paying for stuff.
Or they could go for any other marketing technique, I don't feel like I should be the one telling them to take better care of their past achievements.
Then again I might be too liberal (no not in the economic sense of the word) and maybe I just don't get business.