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Should we have a Jazz 2 resolution changer?

View Poll Results: Should we have a Jazz 2 resolution changer?
Yes 59 64.84%
No 19 20.88%
It should be released to certain people for certain circumstances (e.g. hotels) 8 8.79%
I'm not sure, get back to me on this one 5 5.49%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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Should we have a Jazz 2 resolution changer?

Personally, I think that it may help in certain circumstances, but it should not be released to the public. If you have it, more power to you.

Discuss.
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*discusses*
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Yes, but it shouldn't be able to go past 640x480. Either that or it should be limited to single player. Whichever.
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Anyone who would use this for cheating is pathetic. Let it be available to everyone to use for whatever reason.
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The downside is that you wouldn't really know someone was using it to cheat, would you?
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I voted for the last option so I could quickly access the results. This poll is going to greatly help in my decision to release the program or not.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Rabbit
Yes, but it shouldn't be able to go past 640x480. Either that or it should be limited to single player. Whichever.
I think the poll could use better options. Or maybe the poll question could be more specific.

For resolutions above 640x480, keep this in mind: The background layers (and sometimes foreground layers) in many levels won't look too good with higher resolutions since they weren't designed for this. In addition, if users are able to attain resolutions greater than 800x600, there's likely to be even more of a disparity in how levels are made.
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Someone sad that in the OEM version ther WAS a 800*600 option, but they take it out.. I think for a reason .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaztic
Anyone who would use this for cheating is pathetic. Let it be available to everyone to use for whatever reason.
A lot of people would do this though.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fquist
A lot of people would do this though.
It wouldn't be cheating if it was commonly accepted. Seriously, seekholefix is so cheatish too ;(
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You've read this post with arguments in the other thread, so you might know that's not true. Since barely anything gets very "widespread" in this community (remember: most people still host battle1 and don't visit sites/play a lot of other levels/have a lot of utilities), and since it couldn't even become widespread because a lot of people's computers wouldn't bear the highest resolutions some other players might be able to attain, there's no way in which it would be used by anyone else than a certain elite with the right interest (I don't get what's exciting about it anyways. Just boring to see everyone coming from miles afar) and computer technology.
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It could be used to certain events... like, in a battle, acertain member or more could be assigned be a "ninja" or something who has to try to sneak up to others with the help of the resolution changer, but gets worse weapons..
..something like that.
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I agree with Violet.
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Just limit it to 800x600 or 1024x768.
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Quite a few limitations would have to be put on the program in order to make it as "fair" as possible (and even then not everyone will manage to download it on J2O), such as setting a restriction on the maximum resolution, enabling it for singleplayer only, or, like with the publicly released Ultrawarp, have the resolution changer require an unique access code, generated by a separate program, to run. Every time the program is opened, it would generate a different 'lock' code and therefore need a different unique 'key' code, reducing it to whatever became of Ultrawarp.

Actually, I think it's no longer available for download anymore). I also don't think OL gave out many access codes this year.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grytolle
It wouldn't be cheating if it was commonly accepted. Seriously, seekholefix is so cheatish too ;(
I have a feeling that you don't really know how seekerhole fix works. I'd argue that it's a disadvantage if you are a client and run that program in general.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Rabbit
Yes, but it shouldn't be able to go past 640x480. Either that or it should be limited to single player. Whichever.
It would be easy to make it work in multiplayer :\
So nah I don't want this thing at all due to all of the reasons fquist keeps saying in all these threads some people wouldn't be able to use it, and then it would get rid of more stratagy in the game. Or what stratagy is left.
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Lightbulb Idea!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdie
It would be easy to make it work in multiplayer :\
So nah I don't want this thing at all due to all of the reasons fquist keeps saying in all these threads some people wouldn't be able to use it, and then it would get rid of more stratagy in the game. Or what stratagy is left.
Thanks, you gave me an idea: Making strategy levels, sort like AoE games.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdie
Or what stratagy is left.
Lots. I swear. But only true duellers know it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fquist
I don't get what's exciting about it anyways
Perhaps it would finally look good at TFT screens with a fixed resolution 8)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pako Spanrabbit
Thanks, you gave me an idea: Making strategy levels, sort like AoE games.
=b
How would you create an RTS game with JJ2? ^^;;
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFreak
=b
How would you create an RTS game with JJ2? ^^;;
Hmmm... maybe recluting other players ot your army and make them fight for you. Also, workers that shoot unmasked blocks to make them masked, or make them hit trigger crates wich only them can access to, and chatting to your city via teamchat.
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I doubt that would work, but you can try if you want to.
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Old Apr 19, 2006, 08:27 AM
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Vote wisely, vote yes.
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Out of curiosity, how many votes does one option need for the vote to pass?
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Releasing of this mean total death of JJ2. Because
1) The winner will be that one with the highest resolution
2) 640*480 is enough for MP games
3) It eliminates things like RF advantage
4) The game is not about seeing as much as possible, but about action on there where you can see...

And, if this will be released, with like 90 % probability, I ended with JJ2 ;(
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanYjel
Releasing of this mean total death of JJ2. Because
1) The winner will be that one with the highest resolution
2) 640*480 is enough for MP games
3) It eliminates things like RF advantage
4) The game is not about seeing as much as possible, but about action on there where you can see...

And, if this will be released, with like 90 % probability, I ended with JJ2 ;(
I agree with the bold stuff..
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So if things look bad in 800x600, will anyone fix the overly-played levels to look good in the new res?
I notion the idea that everyone who votes Yes shall fix the levels.

And if someone isn't using the res-changer in MP, isn't that giving others the advatage and thus techincally cheating? Because I'm (-) fine with 640x480, and probably won't use the program.
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I'll volunteer to fix all J2MC levels (which are also the "overplayed" ones).

And about the second thing you asked, it's like asking if disabling Ambient Lighting is a cheat.
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Ugh, I'm back on the skeptical side after I realised what I posted. From my quick calculations, 800x600 would let people see ahead approx. 5 additional tiles ahead. How is it a benefit making the game harder, I don't know. Also, it would move down the background layers by said 5 tiles and move up foreground layers by said 5 tiles, causing stuff to look quite ugly. How would that help playing, I don't know either.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThA BLiNG BLiNG RaBBiT
Just limit it to 800x600 for MP and 1024x768 for SP.
;( I keep saying that it would be easy to make it work in mp.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby aka Dizzy
I have a feeling that you don't really know how seekerhole fix works. I'd argue that it's a disadvantage if you are a client and run that program in general.
I do, I recreated it for shaneybot.

FQuist: I did read it, it didn't make much sense.

Stop ignoring only allowing splitscreeners to play in higher resolutions!
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No.

or...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Rabbit
Yes, but it shouldn't be able to go past 640x480. Either that or it should be limited to single player. Whichever.
I strongly believe the viewable play area (e.g. the area in which you can see the level, players, bullets, and such) should not be allowed to go above the original default of the game (640x480) in multiplayer games. The reason for this is that it would allow certain people (like those who downloaded the program) to have an unfair advantage over others who are playing using the default. If you don't believe this point, try dueling someone who is playing at 640x480 while you play at 400x300.

If you want a utility that increases the size of the window, but keeps the play area no larger than 640x480, then that's fine. To get an idea of the sort of thing I'm talking about, press F3 while in-game in JJ2. Also being able to play split-screen with all the screens at 640x480 might be nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stijn
Perhaps it would finally look good at TFT screens with a fixed resolution 8)
If you're playing on a TFT display and are concerned about quality, then don't play fullscreen. Either that or make sure you are playing at a resolution that is a direct multiple of 2 of the fixed resolution of your TFT display. I suppose one way a resolution changer could help would be to allow those resolutions that are those direct multiples of 2, but again so long as the play area does not exceed 640x480 for the above stated reason.


And I would like to hear some reasonable counter-arguments to Frank's post. Most of what I seem to be hearing is along the lines of "oh, stop whining, it'll be alright" without any real points (presumably because those people want the advantage).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderPX
Out of curiosity, how many votes does one option need for the vote to pass?
It's going to take something like a 3/4 majority to really convince me.
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"That's not really true. It doesn't matter wether this utility is released or not, people will gain an unfair advantage in both situations. However, if you release it, the unfair advantages people have will be much bigger."

The advantage will be smaller, as more people share it. The ones that have i, if most people don't, would/should be easy suspected of "cheating".

"1. Only people who frequent the popular sites at the time the tool is released are likely to get it. A large amount of people don't visit these sites very often."

The people that don't don't play competitive games very often, and it's not that for them to find their way here.

"2. From all the people who play jj2, most of their computers will be able to play 600 x 480. However, with higher resolutions, only the computers of some will be able to bear them. If you have a huge resolution like 1280 x 1024, only a certain group of people will gain the largest advantage."

640x480 isn't so bad anyways. Any argument against 800x600?

"This means, releasing it creates a huge inequality between people with different computer speeds. When you release it there will be an unfair advantage, moreso than if you would not release it and people don't spread/abuse it and it is kept to a select few. If it's not released, the game is "ruined" how? Because Black Ninja and some others can play another way? It's not like you can't adapt."

So if everyone can adapt, why not release it?

"Another invalid argument. Bullets may not go farther but your sight goes farther, and you can adapt your strategy to the multitude of extra information you get on movements. You can dodge faster, move another way, attack people more easily, etcetera."

That's how it is with the current things too, and apparently *most* people can handle 800*600, just like *most* people can handle 640*480

"Regarding splitscreen, how many active forum/site frequenters actively play splitscreen? Compare with how many play online multiplayer, please."

I don't know. I did it those holidays, and it was not very fun. The reason so few play is probably the huge disadvantage it gives.
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I'll just tell you why yes:
  1. Handling 800x600 or 1024x768 isn't really as hard as you make it sound.
  2. This is the dream of many players.
  3. I just can't resist finding out how Jazz works with a higher resolution.
  4. It would improve, or change the gameplay.
  5. I could finally see something in windowed mode.
  6. When playing in a server with many players, the player list would take a lot less space.
  7. Playing in splitscreen mode would be much easier.
  8. With this patch, or whatever you would want to call it, we'd be able to play new, much bigger maps.
  9. I can't really see why people would resist using it.

By the way, I love how the only people who voted no (except Danyjel) are the ones who don't duel often and participate in tournaments anymore.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3p
Handling 800x600 or 1024x768 isn't really as hard as you make it sound.
You say. The computer I play with has about 1400 MB, which is average in the world of today with 3600 computers (or even higher, I don't know), but very high for a game like JJ2 which can run on 100 MB PCs. And come to think of it, it can't handle full screen windowed mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3p
This is the dream of many players.
It's the dream of many guys to be able to hypnotise any girl they want to so they get as much sex as they can get. Is it a good thing just because it's their dream?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3p
I just can't resist finding out how Jazz works with a higher resolution.
It is an interesting thought, yes, but that still doesn't prove any good argument to support the patch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3p
It would improve, or change the gameplay.
It would certainly change it, yes. But if the gameplay was really improved is the question. I doubt it, for the reasons several people stated already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3p
I could finally see something in windowed mode.
I can see fine in windowed mode. I don't know about you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3p
When playing in a server with many players, the player list would take a lot less space.
True, but unneccessary. Just deactivate the list with F9 if it bugs you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3p
Playing in splitscreen mode would be much easier.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3p
With this patch, or whatever you would want to call it, we'd be able to play new, much bigger maps.
How so? Just the sight gets increased, not the level width.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3p
I can't really see why people would resist using it.
Well, not everyone's mind functions like yours I guess.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFreak
It would certainly change it, yes. But if the gameplay was really improved is the question. I doubt it, for the reasons several people stated already.
That really depends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFreak
I can see fine in windowed mode. I don't know about you.
Alright, but people with a very high Windows resolution like me can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFreak
True, but unneccessary. Just deactivate the list with F9 if it bugs you.
No. I still have to see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleFreak
How so? Just the sight gets increased, not the level width.
Answered your own question I guess. As the sight increases, bigger levels should be more playable (Divide and Conquer, Dawn Of Combat, etc).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3p
That really depends.
That gives me an idea. Wouldn't it be possible to have the resolution changer level specific? I doubt it's possible without hacking JCS, but if the screen size could be specified upon creating the level, inbalance problems wouldn't be there anymore.

The other three points depend on how you view it, so I'll not go any further into them.
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I fail to see how disk space affects the performance of JJ2, LF.
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