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A Rant Regarding TSF

Trafton

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May 10, 2003, 11:58 AM
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A Rant Regarding TSF

First off, I would like to say that I am a 1.23 player, and have been one my entire playing career. I do have TSF, but rarely play it, mostly because I have trouble understanding what most people are saying and sort of stereotyped the entire version (quite incorrectly) as been full of players who are untalented and speak not a lick of English.

I have found, after playing some, that this is a foolhardy thing to think.

While TSF may indeed have players that speak in different languages, that is not a bad thing. After all, if Jazz 2 was primarily a Dutch community and we did not speak very much Dutch, I am sure most of us would go to a version in which English was just as common as Dutch.

As for the thing about players being untalented: it is not true in some cases. Sure, many of the players are new. That is because TSF is more common than 1.23, and is sold mostly in the Netherlands and Poland. Not a big deal, really. But there are a lot of very good players there. Plus, there are more players on TSF in the morning than 1.23 in the afternoon. Sure, there are fewer quality custom levels, but that is mostly because the players sort of distance themselves from the community because some of them are not as fluent in English as others.

There is nothing wrong with any of this, I have discovered. I still prefer 1.23, but stereotyping qualities of a few to an entire version is wrong. Give TSF a chance. Some on it may speak less English, but that does not mean the version is any worse.

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May 10, 2003, 12:13 PM
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may i add something? of course i may
Wouldnt it be good to have more of those TSF players hanging around here on this page, i dont know, maybe they do(a poll would maybe show that?), cuz the community is basicly being torn up because of 2 versions. Maybe if a server would be hosted by someone with an obvious name like: jazz2online, and if some of the "better" players, would play there(on TSF) and do some promo, we could get 1 community once again.
Anyway I agree with everything Trafton said, so, if you see servers on TSF and if you have it ,of course, don't be stopped by presumptions, go ahead and play
Poland is afterall in 1 years time becomming a NATO member and a member of the European union, so people there are on a rather civilized lvl. The pope comes from Poland dudes
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May 10, 2003, 12:16 PM
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Yay. So........ *shrugs* ... anyone want candy?


(I think we all knew that, Trafty, except the idiots around, and they won't be convinced now. =b )
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May 10, 2003, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by [GpW]Urbs
Poland is afterall in 1 years time becomming a NATO member and a member of the European union, so people there are on a rather civilized lvl. The pope comes from Poland dudes [/B]
And don't forget that I'm from Poland too
I know few people who play Jazz and I've already succeded in making them want to play some of the best levels there are
And some of those players are really good ones too!

Dan.
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May 10, 2003, 12:33 PM
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TSF is the Future, there are indeed some great players arround only some of them dont Speak English very well or not at all so thats kinda hard to get them here.

i got some TSF\Dutchies to J20 only not to JCF ack =(
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May 10, 2003, 02:33 PM
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I think TSF-ers will adjust. We just need to play it more often.
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I wish they sold TSF in North America. I tried to buy it from Hazes Hideout but it didnt work.
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May 10, 2003, 04:19 PM
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Didn't work?
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May 10, 2003, 05:51 PM
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I have noticed that TSF has changed recently. Whenever I play it, I get accused of cheating MUCH less than I used to 6 - 12 months ago. Also, there are fewer dragonball names.

So yeah, I'm fine with TSF. I still like 1.23 more since I know the people on it, but I don't hate TSF any more (unlike how I used to).

I still hate lori though.
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May 10, 2003, 06:26 PM
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I tried to play TSF before, but without knowing many people, and playing the Epic made Battle levels so much, oh, and not being able to talk to most of them, I sort of got directed towards 1.23. I'm sure if everyone on 1.23 had TSF we could all change to it, and then it wouldn't be very different, except larger/better tilesets and levels, and lori (Who many don't like, but she's OK). But some 1.23ers don't have TSF, so this probably won't happen.
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May 11, 2003, 02:16 AM
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Well, no offense, but aren't those people playing TSF quite agressive and wouldn't they hack the J2O or something? And the languageproblem will stay if they come here, 'cause if I'm correct most of the people playing TSF are pretty young, to young to learn English already... But I might be wrong, I never play TSF... :-
)
But nice people will also join, that's good for us...
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May 11, 2003, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
quite agressive and wouldn't they hack the J2O or something?
Uh.. No? where did you get that idea?
for the other part i pretty much agree with you WF, the big problem stays the language part.
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May 11, 2003, 07:34 AM
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I have TSF, too, it's a MAJOR rip off. Why? BECAUSE all there is new is a new rabbit who's moves were copied from the other one's but maybe speed up a bit to change the feel, and several new levels. For like 30 bucks. Wow. You can get over 100 megabytes of new JJ2 stuff on Jazz2online for FREE.

If you like Jazz2, and you are itching to get TSF, like I was before I got it, you'll probably be dissapointed.
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May 11, 2003, 07:44 AM
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Why would you get DISAPOINTED, okay theres not realy anything new than 1.23 exept Lori and couple other levels, but you get to see a other side of the community which is interesting. (not realy but neway ;p )
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May 11, 2003, 11:09 AM
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What i'd like to see more on TSF servers is a bit more quality levels. You may get lucky and bump into a nice level now and then, but most of the hosted custom levels really need more work. Maybe we ought to direct some TSFers to an existing JCS tutorial site and they could use it to help them get better. As for language, i suppose it depends on how much english these people are taught at school. Internet can improve one's english, but everyone who isn't a native english speaker needs some basics first. ;-P
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May 11, 2003, 11:12 AM
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Well to wrap it up from my side... they're the same as 1.23 peep, just that they act more childish, but not all of them. I personaly hate the fact that custom lvls suck on TSF, other than that, if you really want to play jj2, it's just as good as 1.23. And as stilleto had mentioned, they are the future, TSF is where the potential lies.
I doubt it's still worth debating on the subject though, but by all means plz continue this topic.
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May 22, 2003, 05:39 AM
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TSF rocks because it has a better JCS, a new character...and i still have some copies for 15 Dollars and....blah-blabla [...]

It's funny how i get more and more bored by the discussions on this board. All questions have been asked and all discussions have been discussed, i guess.
It has basically become a FAQ with a lot of Misc and Spam in between the questions and answers. That's why i visit less regularly recently. Hope there's still someone left to answer all the newbie questions, but i guess there are some people.

Keep on jazzing :)
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May 22, 2003, 06:02 AM
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Once again, I wish we had the source code, because perhaps then this community difference could be solved.
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May 22, 2003, 06:44 AM
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No, we would separate from begginers then.

Well, I am Polish AND I have 1.24 from all that time, and I got used to those annoying people who some of you are talking about. Sure, now with help of hex-editor I can join 1.23 servers, but still I more often play on TSF. What should I say as a point? I don't have an idea. :P
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May 22, 2003, 09:11 AM
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I wish I could agree with you Trafton. There are some players on tsf that are mean for absolutly no reason if you disagree with one thing, so their crazy
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Im more of a TSF person but there is the odd time I switch back to playing on 1.23. TSF seems to have crazy people like Roseta said. The games are both good but if you want to talk to someone whos not like a mad person then go on 1.23
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I rarely ever have to use the /kick or /ban functions in 1.23, because very few people are annoying there. Well, excepting Crazy Wo/Man. However, if/when I ever host a TSF server, people are basically breaking every moral rule I know of, and that Jazzers on 1.23 know of. The unspoken rules of platform netgaming.

Maybe I'm being anal-retentive about all this. Maybe not. I couldn't care to know.
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SSF

TSF is an engine upgrade with no community. At the time of its release there was no need for the new engine, the community hasn't reached the limitations of the original 1.23 engine, or atleast the great majority of it. Therefore at the time it didn't really seem necessary to upgrade, except perhaps for 9 (I think) levels by jeh, 3 new tilesets and a girl bunny with nothing new and interresting and no function in terms of gameplay.

Her level navigation is POOR, and that an even greater problem thanks to custom levels, you get some that even Jazz can't navigate correctly, now imagine lori with no way of reaching very high, why do you guys think most people play spaz anyway? SPAZ IS CHEESE!!!

The main reason for it failing I think is the community part, it's definitley a better game than 1.23, but at the time the changes were insignificant. Nobody played lori online (she sucks compared to spaz and/or jazz, it's just a small treat), nobody made extremely huge levels and nobody made tilesets over 1020 tiles in size, we didn't need TSF, so we didn't get it. Some people in europe got it, but thanks to bad marketing it was never released in the USA, and to prevent ripping the community in two the people that got TSF played 1.23 anyway. All the people that stayed in TSF were new, they had no real reason to play 1.23 with its inferior engine and stayed there to form a new community, one that's behind 'ours' ofcourse, but it's there nontheless.

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The levels' quality is really the worst thing about TSF. Most people there are actually very nice. And many already know names like "Bobby aka Dizzy" or "FQuist". And they do respect them. It's just like Trafton said, they sometimes seem to want to stay away from the 1.23 community. Some could play 1.23, some can't because they simply don't have it and can't get it. And among those who could play 1.23, some seem not to be interested.

About getting them t the JCF...I think many of them did join JCF or "at least" J2O already. Most of them just are less active. Either because I don't know :P or, plain and simple, their English "skills". That's probably the greatest barrier for them- as I guess that most of the new players these days aren't much older than 12 or so.

Aiko did some kind of "recruiting" people for this community back when he was still active. That's btw how I got here. Blame him ;P. Anyways: I do sometimes ask people to at least check this site here, and already gave them information about 1.23 and stuff. Only I think I'm not really good for such a job, as I barely play JJ2 these days. Now what do I want to say? Well, if you directly talk to them, they sure react. Their English may sometimes be hard to understand, so I suggest you to go "out" in groups of two people with at least one who speaks Dutch fluently.


Now I wrote some crap and don't know why. Thanks for reading anyways .
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TSF just added more imbalance to this poor game. Spaz is far way the best character ever. (In a Jazz-Spaz balanced level of curse. It's ridiculos that in some levels a character have adavantage over another.) Lori CANNOT be compared to her brothers. What bothers me, is because 2 players with same skills, the player playing Spaz will win.

This game really needs alot, including strategy and better gametypes. Bank Robber, and other custom gametypes are full of strategy. From the offical, only CTF has a tad of strategy. But you cannot compare it to JK2 ctf. Treasure is odd, race is hardly playable because of lag, and battle is okay. Both Battle and CTF recures abit strategy and micro. Let's not forget to mention how awful boring the single player included is.

The weapons is intresting throught. But there's still "lesser" and better weapons. Pepperspray can be okay, but why Pepper when you can fire 3 powerfull red rockets dealing 2 points of damage. The wrost about this game is seekers. One hit on the space buttom and your enemy has to dance as an isane for avoid it. Seekers are for noobs, imo.

I could keep rant, but nobody would read it anyway.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Unhit
Some could play 1.23, some can't because they simply don't have it and can't get it.
AFAIK TSF came with two discs, the TSF disk exclusively and another copy of regular Jazz2 1.23 (actually probably 1.20 or 1.21). At least, that's how it was in the copy I got.

Moonblaze, once again those are more reasons we need the source code.

It would be interesting if some aspects of J2O could be bilingual, in Dutch and English at least, to at least better acompany the estranged TSF community. Sigh, this game is great but it's got a lot of negative aspects, and as I've been saying if we had the source code we could work to correct those.
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Yeah Spaztic, it's true there was a 1.20 or 1.21 CD. Just most don't know where to get the patch !
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OH, hey yeah, that is right. Do the TSF people know about the list servers patch for JJ2? If they don't, of course they won't join a 1.23 server.

Also does anyone have any backdoor programs avilable, so we can take over their comptuers over the internet and make their original JJ2 copy launch itself? Yeah, we could upload a wav of angels singing and make their computers play it when JJ2 launches. LOL. Or we could just join their TSF servers and spam them with the J2O web address... yeah, that'll work great!!! ... Ok, so I don't have any ideas.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Spaztic
AFAIK TSF came with two discs, the TSF disk exclusively and another copy of regular Jazz2 1.23 (actually probably 1.20 or 1.21). At least, that's how it was in the copy I got.
In Poland, JJ2 is sold only as TSF, which has only ONE CD. It is impossible to buy 1.23 in Poland. Also, while translating to Polish, LK Avalon made a great bug which turns the colon removing sign into "┐", so for example, Eagle becomes Eagle┐ (I once saw when somebody called him like that, he wasn't happy). However, a guy named Cloud is working on a patch to fix that. He says it'll have 10 MB, so I think I know what will be inside and I doubt it'll be legal. And most Polish players probably won't be too bright to find that patch.
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Didn't you notice that 1.23 -> 1.24 patch ALSO had 10MB? That's what I mean when I say it can be "illegal".
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I wonder why Trafton's post was deleted. Anyway, now I have a 3 posts combo!
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