it's not fake? whoa give me this odyssey edit with 800x600 text tiles

I have always been supportive of releasing it, but I'd like to re-emphasize that I agree with cooba on that 5 tiles extra don't make a significant difference.

A key argument against making this public is that it would be unfair because a lot of people wouldn't get it because they don't know J2O. However, most people who play in duels or clanwars ("serious" players) actually do, if not only because JDC is hosted on J2O. What does it matter if people can see 5 tiles further than others in, say, a hotel level or polskiBoy32's public battle1 serwer? As long as it does not interfere with games in which people are actually really playing to win, I don't see a problem.

There's still the argument that not everyone has a badass 1600x1200 screen and that the difference between, say, 1600x1200 and 640x480 does make gameplay unfair. Fair enough. A limit of 1024x786 would seem sensible, as this is a resolution supported by most modern equipment.

I am also of the opinion that artificially holding the development of new features back because "some people maybe won't get it" is stupid. After 10 years one can expect that a game has been hacked to death and patched to the max. While Jazz 2 has not been expanded as much as other games as old (or even younger), I think it is not unreasonable to expect people to look around a bit for patches or tools that enhance the game.

Unfortunately, "polskiBoy32's" hotel isn't the only level that will be played. While it isn't hard to fix levels to work with 800x600, I don't really care much for weather or not the 800x600 version is released, all it really means for me is changing my jazz2 shortcut.

In my opinion the best way to reduce any potential advantage that could be gained from using any JJ2 utilities is to release them publicly so they aren't special anymore. You don't see people spamming servers with other tools that you could download from J2O.

After getting a widescreen monitor for Christmas, I've been thinking of the implications of LCD users, especially those who don't have a standard 3:4 ratio display. One of the benefits of a resolution changer would be to allow people with non 3:4 resolutions play in fullscreen.

Of course, somebody playing Jazz 2 with a 1440x900 (16:10 ratio) resolution, like myself, would have an obvious extreme advantage, being able to see much more than even somebody running Jazz 2 in 1024x768. In my opinion, there should be a resolution cap that cannot be passed, since once we reach a certain point in resolution, the size becomes overbearing and impossible to play in (would you seriously like to play at a 1600x1200 resolution? Too much information coming in at once, you'd probably focus on the area near your character anyway.).

jj2 blows for my 22" widescreen, please release this fix

I don't see this a problem. The only thing that could be considered somewhat bad is that it will be no longer useful to leave parts of levels that are far from the reachable areas empty, like in some of the official levels. Some of the singleplayer tricks, such as jumping into long shafts without knowing what's on the bottom, can also lose on that.

if you find that boring in single player, play in a lower resolution

...unless those are made unavailable OOOO!

To be honest I'd like to have a high reso hack public.
People can choose if they wanna play with it or not.

A higher resolution does indeed offer advantages, even in cooba's screen (you can see the seeker upgrade), but wth, as stijn pointed out, those who play the game competitively will all be able to profit from it. so bring it on, with a cap (!) my eyes thank you <3

It's not as much of a resolution changer as a hacked Jazz2.exe with the additional resolutions as options. I figure it would be fairly simple to add the 16:9 (as well as probably more ratios) resolutions.

I supposed that the rescap of 800×600 would have been enough but if you guys want to go for 1024×768 then be my guest. Just be warned that 1024×768 is where the game starts looking weirdly small in fullscreen (and the layers are broken even harder).

Originally Posted by Unhit

A higher resolution does indeed offer advantages, even in cooba's screen (you can see the seeker upgrade)

Normally you would have to crouch or get off the platform to see the power up spawning. If anything, I consider that as an argument of 800×600 speeding up the gameplay (in a very minor way).

Just so you know, the resolution hack was actually designed for 800x600, no higher. The 'extra' higher resolutions were just for testing purposes.

"I have always been supportive of releasing it, but I'd like to re-emphasize that I agree with cooba on that 5 tiles extra don't make a significant difference."

Also, it makes a hell lot of a difference if you're used to it
Just so that you know ;P

Originally Posted by Vegito

Also, it makes a hell lot of a difference if you're used to it

No. The game just looks a lot bigger in fullscreen, but in reality it's the mere 2.5 tiles.

Im experienced with it too.
I just let you know that it makes a whole lot of a difference if you're used to it, which I am.

This hacked version of jj2 originally gave me the idea for blackout because it completely failed to render the tileset at very high resolutions. The screen appeared black. I've always supported higher resolutions for jj2.

One of the worst ever gameplay-related modifications.
JJ2 is supposed to be played with the standard resolution.
Seeing a bigger area is easy to tolerate as cheating.
It gives an enormous edge over those who don't/can't do it.

Originally Posted by Raven aka StL

One of the worst ever gameplay-related modifications.
JJ2 is supposed to be played with the standard resolution.
Seeing a bigger area is easy to tolerate as cheating.
It gives an enormous edge over those who don't/can't do it.

What is the standard resolution? You could just as easily say the game was designed for 300x200 and that we shouldn't be playing above that.

It's going to break layers in a lot of levels, isn't it? Especially older ones. Personally I could not care less what impact it has on online play, especially if everyone chooses to use the same settings.

A solution, though (I imagine) difficult to implement, would be to have j2l's have hardcoded settings for proper screen resolution size and all other video/sound related options.. just to add fairness as well as a fix for old levels, not to mention another layer of customisation for level makers. I suppose another tool to bypass this would just pop up but whatever. Screen resolution could be visible by a server's host and "cheaters" could be kicked as well.. I could muse all day, but I imagine it won't go anywhere, so file this under 'wouldn't it be neat if...'

Originally Posted by Tik

It's going to break layers in a lot of levels, isn't it? Especially older ones. Personally I could not care less what impact it has on online play, especially if everyone chooses to use the same settings.

Mostly just an issue in single player. For that, the player just has to play in the resolution it's designed for. It's no big deal because if someone is playing a SP level with non-recommended settings, they might as well just get it over with and type jjgod. All it really takes is putting a disclaimer in the readme file ("this was designed for 640x480").

For multiplayer, interestingly enough most levels don't break that much. The worst you'll usually see is stuff like floating mountains.

Indeed, you still need to know how to play the game, and know the map. I also believe that higher resolutions don't make the game more fair or unfair.

In that case, I suppose the 'auto weapon switch' fix could even be considered more unfair, as players who use it have to press less buttons (the number keys), allowing a minor gameplay speed boost haha.

It's the most obvious thing ever, that seeing a considerably bigger area at any given time gives you a gigantic edge over other players of the same level, who don't.

That'd make it a whole lot easier to track other players' movements and to avoid shots.
Again, this should be real damn obvious.

If you don't care about it, don't try to make it sound like it doesn't matter either.

Knowing where other players are is one thing, the real deal is to roast them, and no bigger resolution can give you those skills. Of course a bigger overview gives you some advantages, but I don't believe it really impacts the actual outcome of the game (it's all about the players/teams personal skills)!

It does not post that much of an unfair advantage:

Originally Posted by cooba

I wish to revive this discussion.

The prime argument of the people opposing the release of the high resolutions hack was the so-called unfair advantage. However, earlier in the thread I pointed out that the 800×600 resolution expands the view by 2 tiles and a half, which no one exactly seemed to notice. 2.5 tiles is a distance that a player's rabbit beats in split a second if he's running, and people are running more often than not in games like duels on clanwars.

If that doesn't convince you, tell me if this looks like potential unfair advantage:



This image is not fake.

Furthermore, I arranged a battle1 duel with SuperJazz to see if there is any unfair advantage. I played in the 1024×768 resolution and lost 0-5. Granted that 1024×768 is glitchy as far as I can tell, and that I'm far from a great player, but there was little to no advantage at all that I personally felt.


I believe that 800×600 would be a resolution safe enough to be made public.

And also, if people really want to whine about advancement, make an option in JJ2+ as stated above.

None of that takes away the fact that a smart player can take advantage of seeing a (even slightly) bigger area and gain a potentially significant edge over their opponent.

I rest my case... if someone wants to try to ruin the remaining competitive gameplay on a whim, they may do so.

Originally Posted by Raven aka StL

None of that takes away the fact that a smart player can take advantage of seeing a (even slightly) bigger area and gain a potentially significant edge over their opponent.

I rest my case... if someone wants to try to ruin the remaining competitive gameplay on a whim, they may do so.

When everyone plays on the same resolution (or lower, which ofc won't be blocked), that doesn't hold true. That's what the suggested /maxresolution command is for. 12 years ago it was potentially unfair that some people couldn't handle 640x480. I'm quite certain that no-one can 't handle 800x600 and very few can't handle 1000x640

Originally Posted by Grytolle

When everyone plays on the same resolution (or lower, which ofc won't be blocked), that doesn't hold true. That's what the suggested /maxresolution command is for. 12 years ago it was potentially unfair that some people couldn't handle 640x480. I'm quite certain that no-one can 't handle 800x600 and very few can't handle 1000x640

There's truth here. Back in 1998, those pre-Pentium processors like the Intel 486/486DX and cheap graphics adapters from Trident/Chips/Maxtor etc, were still very popular setups. Especially for kids and teenagers on a low budget like me (I was 8 back then so yeah). And the 640x480 resolution could make a shuttering framerate even on 8-bit mode. Not that all of this is relevant to today's situation, JJ2 was 'meant' to be played on 640x480 in the end, after all.

So, why am I getting all this garbage on my screen?

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3521/bigjazz.png (linked because it's 1920 x 1080!)

I'm running this in Windows 7 64bit.

You must play in 8 bit, with MMX capabilities turned off.

Originally Posted by SPAZ18

So, why am I getting all this garbage on my screen?

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3521/bigjazz.png (linked because it's 1920 x 1080!)

I'm running this in Windows 7 64bit.

Maybe because JJ2 isn't built for fullHD?

Well, I put it on 8-bit, turned off MMX and it works. However, when I tried it in Noobed CTF, it just refused to work.
In "Destroyed Cassis Factory" it would keep crashing randomly.

Originally Posted by Raven aka StL

None of that takes away the fact that a smart player can take advantage of seeing a (even slightly) bigger area and gain a potentially significant edge over their opponent.

I rest my case... if someone wants to try to ruin the remaining competitive gameplay on a whim, they may do so.

A whole 2 and a half tiles. You're really going to complain about 2 and a half tiles? Get a life.

Originally Posted by SPAZ18

Well, I put it on 8-bit, turned off MMX and it works. However, when I tried it in Noobed CTF, it just refused to work.
In "Destroyed Cassis Factory" it would keep crashing randomly.

It is not fully stable, it is a beta.

Dermo, the difference is 2 and a half tiles at 800x600. At higher resolutions, it's more. Get a life. ;P

So, I've experimented with this resolution changer a bit. It's quite cool to see JJ2 realized on my HDTV. now if only the game had 7.1 surround

So far I would not say that the 'advantage' higher resolutions gives you is significant. The game still requires skill to be good at. True, you can see people coming from further away; however, for all you know they have the exact same program with the same resolution.

Also, I thought I'd add (for anyone who didn't figure it out already) that my resolution changer was abandoned long ago. I got 800x600 working pretty well, but anything above that caused untold misery. The one sort-of-advantage to my tool was that it did allow custom resolutions to show up (weirdly) in the in-game menu. No, I don't still have it; it was lost long ago when my Windows XP machine went kaput.

Look once more at the screenshot and see that 800x600 shows a Seeker PU which is not visible in 640x480. I don't play online, so my opinion in this case doesn't really matter, but I find it an advantage, since a player know did it already respawn or not. Such a thing is also useful in new levels, where a high-resolution player will see everything before the other players do, and he will know where should he go to get a PU/carrot/whatever. If someone still doesn't believe that resolution can change player's chances, try to win a duel in 320x240. It's only 5 tiles less, really.

Btw, two and a half of tile more is 125% of a normal range (10 tiles). In 1280x960 it's already 10 tiles more, so 200%. In my opinion it's a cheating program.

Originally Posted by Sir Ementaler

Btw, two and a half of tile more is 125% of a normal range (10 tiles). In 1280x960 it's already 10 tiles more, so 200%. In my opinion it's a cheating program.

How is it cheating if all players use it?

/maxresolution would be a very good solution to the "cheating problem".

(/maxresolution 320x200 = nice for survivor)

Originally Posted by Grytolle

How is it cheating if all players use it?

1. If I'm not wrong, even Plus isn't used by all of the players. As someone said before (can't find), not everyone know about J2O.

2. My screen max resolution is 1024x768, and I guess I'm not the only one like this.

Originally Posted by Foly

/(/maxresolution 320x200 = nice for survivor)

I want such a thing to be able to play without slowdowns and disadvantage (in 320x200, 8-bit and low details I'd have something like 30 fps! I would rock!)

/maxresolution please.

i think it's not going to be better, i want to see a bigger resolution, but i rather have 640x480. but i want a way to control that everyone is using the same resolution, otherwise it would be unfair.

Originally Posted by Foly

(/maxresolution 320x200 = nice for survivor)

or for DnC

Originally Posted by Black Ninja

Dermo, the difference is 2 and a half tiles at 800x600. At higher resolutions, it's more. Get a life. ;P

Originally Posted by Black Ninja

So far I would not say that the 'advantage' higher resolutions gives you is significant. The game still requires skill to be good at. True, you can see people coming from further away; however, for all you know they have the exact same program with the same resolution.

A thought occurs - I'd be intrigued by being able to remove the FPS cap. Not sure if this is really possible though (and obviously it would require a capable monitor / TV).