Originally Posted by Black Ninja

Just a couple quick thoughts here.

JJ2 was made in a time when widescreen monitors/displays were not at all common in the mainstream market. As a result, it doesn't support any real widescreen resolutions. I know all too well that modifying JJ2's resolution to something higher than what the game supports doesn't really work (at least, reliably). However, what if there was an option for a widescreen resolution that is lower than 640x480? Personally, I wouldn't mind losing some pixels if the game didn't stretch to fill my widescreen display, which looks rather ugly.

Only noobs play in full-screen. :'(

Originally Posted by CrimiClown

Only noobs play in full-screen. :'(

Don't steal my lines

Originally Posted by Grytolle

Don't steal my lines

sorry gry that was mean have some free money


(Now I'm stealing Jam's lines, is that okay?)

Originally Posted by CrimiClown

sorry gry that was mean have some free money


(Now I'm stealing Jam's lines, is that okay?)

No, because you're stealing jamster's, not Jam's

I actually think that difference is a very major advantage indeed, and I must have it... >O

(In all seriousness it's probably not THAT big a deal, but in my mind, I would really appreciate that sort of thing as an advantage to me)

Originally Posted by cooba

As shown by this post, it's hardly an advantage.

I don't particularly think it's a big advantage either. That's why I chose the word perceived. I do think it's a small advantage though, and that's probably enough to set off some of the more vocal people.

Very few levels look uglier in 800x600 - a large factor here are the background layers, which can cause problems in high resolutions if there's some unfortunate use of Tile Height.

The majority of multiplayer levels are fine. It's really single player that I was thinking about, and I should have mentioned that in my post. A number of SP packs like to crop the view so it's "widescreen", and things like cutscenes might look a bit ugly. I know I've made a number of levels where even 1 extra tile of viewing space would make things ugly. Just so you know, this doesn't particularly bother me - I'd just ask people to play in 640x480 and if they didn't, well, it's their fault. Same deal with things like disabling ambient lighting.

MP levels tend to be less prone to this kind of thing, since they rarely use any special tricks.

By no means should a bigger resolution become available to anyone.
This would be a huge advantage to whoever can, well, take advantage of it.
Secondly a ton of levels would require editing. (Referring to cooba's post)

Originally Posted by St. Louis

(Referring to cooba's post)

...Which you didn't actually read, apparently.

Originally Posted by Stijn

...Which you didn't actually read, apparently.

Damn right I did and I'm not exaggerating one bit.

EDIT: ...Both posts

Honestly, if everyone has 800x600 it would bring everyone back to .. an even skill level.
800x600 does matter quite a bit when it comes to duels/2v2s or something. Its just the split second where you see your opponent and they do not see you. Same goes for bullets, easier to dodge. (Any bigger than 2v2 gets more messy and so its harder to stay alive there anyway. No big difference there.)
I just vote for everyone to have it so it makes the game fair. Not only the ones who can *get* 800x600 into their hands >: O

About levels looking more ugly, no clue.

Originally Posted by St. Louis

By no means should a bigger resolution become available to anyone.
This would be a huge advantage to whoever can, well, take advantage of it.

I'm pretty sure that any 10 years old computer that was strong enough to survive 10 years can run JJ2 on 800x600. And I'm pretty sure that any low-end new computer can, too.

Originally Posted by Hunter

98% of all the JJ2 cheaters just use tools somebody else made, and actually know nothing about game hacking.

If you're in the other 2%, copy and paste this into your signature.

So I'm making changes to the generator event so that the maximum respawn delay is 4 minutes and 3 seconds. I also added a bit for "Initial Delay" which, when set, prevents an object from initially spawning in a level until after the delay time specified. I'm undecided if I should increase the maximum respawn delay even more, but I'm probably keeping it as it is. Right now the JCS.ini line will look like this:

216=Generator                       |+|Generator |Gene-  |rator  |Event:8|Delay Secs:6|Delay Mins:2|Initial Delay:1

Thoughts?

I think this could prove very useful, especially in single player levels. My question to you, is why 243 seconds(4:03)?

Initial delay would be very cool.

I don't see a big need for a greater delay time, unless you could make an unending delay, so the event would be created only once, since it would allow for MCEs that don't regenerate.

I don't think making an "unending delay" for MCEs is worthwhile. I am, however, already planning on using a 2 minute delay for seeker powerups in some of my levels.

For the delay parameters, I may go with seconds only instead of minutes and seconds so it would be more intuitive (3 minutes and 63 seconds is a little awkward) and so events can use a slightly higher maximum respawn delay (255 seconds versus 243).

I've been thinking of this for a longer time. It would be an awesome change to the game if music would be more than just some level-specific background noise.

My idea: some new events. This might be overly complicated here, but even the basics of this functionality would give this game a nice boost in terms of earcandy.

Some music events could be used to set the music volume, change the speed (chances are this is easier to do with module music than with MP3's and the like, but I don't know exactly),... things like that.

Most importantly: a Change Music event. In my idea, it comes with parameters TextID, FadeStart, FadeLength, EndPosition and Start Position.

It changes the music to the filename specified in the text field with ID TextID, if that exists. TextID 0 should load the level's default music.

FadeStart specifies the event on which the fade of FadeLength seconds should begin*. Note that this can also be 0 seconds, which in fact means the music changes instantly. Values of FadeStart:
-0: as soon as the specified file is loaded
-1: at the first pattern jump (AKA position jump) or pattern end encountered after the specified file is loaded (or immediately if the played music format does not involve patterns)
-2: at the first pattern end encountered after the specified file is loaded (or immediately if the played music format does not involve patterns); pattern jumps do not trigger the transition
-3: when the end of the current music file is first encountered after the specified file is loaded
-4: when the cursor leaves the pattern in the EndPositionst position in the current music's pattern order (or after EndPosition*10 seconds from the beginning of a non-module file)
-5: when the cursor enters the pattern in the EndPositionst position in the current music's pattern order (or after EndPosition*10 seconds from the beginning of a non-module file)
-6: ?
-7: ? (stupid bitfields :/)

Finally, StartPosition is the position in the pattern order of the specified music file where the new music would start. This may be useful if you've got multiple loops in the same module file. Again, if it's not a module file just skip the first StartPosition*10 seconds.



Now imagine this. You enter one of those TOTALLY AWESOME GroundForce levels. A modified version of TSF's City1g.it begins to play (would be great if music could be downloaded off servers** too ;p but let's assume you have the modified file already). The first two patterns are played over and over again (position jump at the end of the second one...). It's this finger snapping intro.
Then, as you manage to wallclimb yourself into the wall and get transported to the waiting room, you pass the Set Music event: 0,4,0,1,2. As soon as the second pattern ends again, it starts playing the third (position #2, 0 based, you get it). At the end of 2, you go to 3, 3 to 4, 4 to 5 and the end of 5 points back to position 4. This waiting music is a little bit more interesting than this dull snap snap thingy.
Finally the 'starter' comes back from the toilet and everyone zaps into the playing field. Set Music: 0,4,0,5,6. Some guitarish thingy starts playing and the game has started. The end of position 15 jumps to position 6 (maybe the pattern at position 15 should be altered a bit to make this sound good).
As soon as you drop out, you move past another Set Music event: 0,0,0,0,16. This jumps directly to position 16. The end of the music begins. The last row of the last pattern (position 20) should point back to position 19 for a nice loop for the time being.




*If another Set Music event is touched before this, I think you'd best just cancel the first one.
**Download lag may be an issue as upload speeds are still making me sad. An external music file database server thingy would be a great alternative: after loading the level, JJ2 connects to this server and requests the music file/s specified in the level file. The ones present on the server are then downloaded. But this is getting way too complicated.

Originally Posted by BlurredD

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Jerrythabest

I've been thinking of this for a longer time. It would be an awesome change to the game if music would be more than just some level-specific background noise.

My idea: some new events. This might be overly complicated here, but even the basics of this functionality would give this game a nice boost in terms of earcandy.

Some music events could be used to set the music volume, change the speed (chances are this is easier to do with module music than with MP3's and the like, but I don't know exactly),... things like that.

Most importantly: a Change Music event. In my idea, it comes with parameters TextID, FadeStart, FadeLength, EndPosition and Start Position.

It changes the music to the filename specified in the text field with ID TextID, if that exists. TextID 0 should load the level's default music.

FadeStart specifies the event on which the fade of FadeLength seconds should begin*. Note that this can also be 0 seconds, which in fact means the music changes instantly. Values of FadeStart:
-0: as soon as the specified file is loaded
-1: at the first pattern jump (AKA position jump) or pattern end encountered after the specified file is loaded (or immediately if the played music format does not involve patterns)
-2: at the first pattern end encountered after the specified file is loaded (or immediately if the played music format does not involve patterns); pattern jumps do not trigger the transition
-3: when the end of the current music file is first encountered after the specified file is loaded
-4: when the cursor leaves the pattern in the EndPositionst position in the current music's pattern order (or after EndPosition*10 seconds from the beginning of a non-module file)
-5: when the cursor enters the pattern in the EndPositionst position in the current music's pattern order (or after EndPosition*10 seconds from the beginning of a non-module file)
-6: ?
-7: ? (stupid bitfields :/)

Finally, StartPosition is the position in the pattern order of the specified music file where the new music would start. This may be useful if you've got multiple loops in the same module file. Again, if it's not a module file just skip the first StartPosition*10 seconds.



Now imagine this. You enter one of those TOTALLY AWESOME GroundForce levels. A modified version of TSF's City1g.it begins to play (would be great if music could be downloaded off servers** too ;p but let's assume you have the modified file already). The first two patterns are played over and over again (position jump at the end of the second one...). It's this finger snapping intro.
Then, as you manage to wallclimb yourself into the wall and get transported to the waiting room, you pass the Set Music event: 0,4,0,1,2. As soon as the second pattern ends again, it starts playing the third (position #2, 0 based, you get it). At the end of 2, you go to 3, 3 to 4, 4 to 5 and the end of 5 points back to position 4. This waiting music is a little bit more interesting than this dull snap snap thingy.
Finally the 'starter' comes back from the toilet and everyone zaps into the playing field. Set Music: 0,4,0,5,6. Some guitarish thingy starts playing and the game has started. The end of position 15 jumps to position 6 (maybe the pattern at position 15 should be altered a bit to make this sound good).
As soon as you drop out, you move past another Set Music event: 0,0,0,0,16. This jumps directly to position 16. The end of the music begins. The last row of the last pattern (position 20) should point back to position 19 for a nice loop for the time being.




*If another Set Music event is touched before this, I think you'd best just cancel the first one.
**Download lag may be an issue as upload speeds are still making me sad. An external music file database server thingy would be a great alternative: after loading the level, JJ2 connects to this server and requests the music file/s specified in the level file. The ones present on the server are then downloaded. But this is getting way too complicated.

i get your enthousiasm, however this is actually quite impossible. especially withouth a source code of jj2. the mp3 thing is rather not going to show up. and the module thing. well, a tracker like modplug tracker wasn't easy to build at all. jj2 uses a modplayer called BASS. not a inbuild tracker that follow up and changes things on commands. what i mean is that a connection with jj2 <-> player is way less complicated then jj2 <-> tracker. and as you know.. jj2 already had a inbuild player and that was the galaxy one. so it was kinda programmed that jj2 could "PLAY" the mods. not changing settings.

I may be mistaken, but I believe the best we could hope for when it comes to music is a simple "change music" event that would allow for the loading of an entirely new file. However, Blur's ownage levels are higher than mine, so Jerry's idea may be more plausible than I realize.

Originally Posted by Jerrythabest

(long "change music" suggestion)

When I finally start creating new events (eventually...) I'll probably be using the Area ID event extensively with all parameters contained within a help string. Anyway, even though it would technically be possible to add all the features you mentioned with non-j2b tracks, I don't think it's worth the effort especially since most people will just use the event for simple music changes and since some features can easily be attained by editing the original track.

On a related note, I should probably bother to find a way to dynamically convert .j2b (i.e. compressed .am files) to something the BASS library can read.

Originally Posted by FawFul

i get your enthousiasm, however this is actually quite impossible. especially withouth a source code of jj2. the mp3 thing is rather not going to show up. and the module thing. well, a tracker like modplug tracker wasn't easy to build at all. jj2 uses a modplayer called BASS. not a inbuild tracker that follow up and changes things on commands. what i mean is that a connection with jj2 <-> player is way less complicated then jj2 <-> tracker. and as you know.. jj2 already had a inbuild player and that was the galaxy one. so it was kinda programmed that jj2 could "PLAY" the mods. not changing settings.

It's not impossible, though admittedly I don't want to add a "change music" event just yet.

Hey, I recently came back (I'm not so annoying anymore). Just wanted to say that for some reason JJ2+ tends to freeze on level load screens in Wine. I don't have any information why. It is certainly an excellent expansion for JJ2.

It's not specific to Wine, by the way. It will be fixed in the next update, assuming people download it.

Originally Posted by BlurredD

When I finally start creating new events (eventually...) I'll probably be using the Area ID event extensively with all parameters contained within a help string. Anyway, even though it would technically be possible to add all the features you mentioned with non-j2b tracks, I don't think it's worth the effort especially since most people will just use the event for simple music changes and since some features can easily be attained by editing the original track.

At least, it's an idea As I said before, my version of it might be overly complicated... but if you'd ever need some inspiration like that you've got it now.




So, whenever you finally start creating new events (eventually...), don't forget this one post ey

Originally Posted by Jerrythabest

It would be awesome if JJ2+ supported new events and event parameters to perform special things. As there are a lot of unused event numbers, it wouldn't cause problems for non-plussers. Examples could be:
-boolean parameter "No plus" for "Warp" that disables the warp for JJ2+ users
-similar things for many other events
-new options in the easy/normal/hard/multiplayer list like "Plus only", "LRS only", "Race only" etc. (only possible if normal JJ2 ignores events with difficulty set to something nonexistent)

Just reminding

haha.. ok. well if it's possible to change events.. or even add new ones. why keeps everyone whining to get the source code? seems most things are possible withouth it. anyway then it's possible, but technically it would be a great challenge to let it work too.

While we're on the subject of music and the like, I thought I'd mention that there have been numerous occasions where I wished there was an "ambient music" event. For example, imagine that when the player enters an elevator, they hear muzak. When they are near a radio, they hear DEATH METAL!!!

That kind of thing.

Originally Posted by Black Ninja

While we're on the subject of music and the like, I thought I'd mention that there have been numerous occasions where I wished there was an "ambient music" event. For example, imagine that when the player enters an elevator, they hear muzak. When they are near a radio, they hear DEATH METAL!!!

That kind of thing.

You mean like an expansion to the Ambient Sound event we have now? I have a feeling it'll be hard to convert those... and besides, some wouldn't really fit without the original level music fading to a 10% volume, or maybe even less.

Originally Posted by Black Ninja

While we're on the subject of music and the like, I thought I'd mention that there have been numerous occasions where I wished there was an "ambient music" event. For example, imagine that when the player enters an elevator, they hear muzak. When they are near a radio, they hear DEATH METAL!!!

That kind of thing.

Reminds me of Portal. When you move close to a radio in that game, you hear a very low quality instrumental version of the game's ending song Still Alive.

Originally Posted by Jerrythabest

Reminds me of Portal. When you move close to a radio in that game, you hear a very low quality instrumental version of the game's ending song Still Alive.

Or in Psi-Ops, when you enter an elevator you hear a midi-version of "With My Mind", the game's theme tune.

Anyway, here's a suggestion for an alternative Flag Run mode: Flag Marathon. Instead of one neutral flag and two bases, there are multiple spots and only one base. The Flag will spawn in one random Flag Spot. When a player takes it, it should be returned to the Neutral Base. Every time a point is scored, the flag respawns in a different, random Flag Spot. Having 5 or so Flag Spots in the level, this could be really fun.

Edit: Maybe it'd be fun if the player who killed the Flag Carrier obtains the flag, rather than having to search for it again.

So I have 3 unused bits for the generator event. I could use them for longer respawn delays or something else though I don't know what. Any ideas?

Can you make an option to have a generator stop spawning objects once a trigger ID is set to on?

I.E. a player crashes a crate, a bee hive stops spawning bees.

I decided to stick with 255 seconds for the max delay time from the belief that basically no one will ever need more. I'll deal with any future generator event changes some time later.

I made another update, by the way. I didn't include everything I wanted to include, and I didn't test everything I wanted to test, but I made an update.

Point of worry, how does the test against players using weapons that aren't in the level work? Are bouncers allowable if there are gun crates/barrels but no bouncer-specific events? Would MCEs cause problems if for some reason a gun was only available in MCE form?

I'm glad you asked. I already considered both of the cases you mentioned. Bouncers would be allowed if there are only found gun crates/barrels. And I made special code so that objects created by (simple) MCEs would always be properly detected. And weapons from events other than the generator event are properly detected as well. The only case I didn't cover is when ammo or powerups are placed within a crate as an extra event since I figured no one does this regularly. I'll probably add support for it in the next update though.

Originally Posted by BlurredD

The only case I didn't cover is when ammo or powerups are placed within a crate as an extra event since I figured no one does this regularly. I'll probably add support for it in the next update though.

I actually did that in some of my GroundForce levels.


Anyway, I hope you'll include the latest version of JCS.ini with Jazz2+. Event changes are, together with implementation of custom gametypes, the most interesting features IMO. There are plenty of new events that could be invented for the custom gametypes. Basically anything that is done with wicked trigger stuff, team seperation, MCE's and other bug/glitch-dependent tricks could have an event of their own.

I'm hesitant about including versions of JCS.ini with JJ2+, because there are a lot of options out there already and people may be using different setups, giving events different names, categorizing them differently, etc. I'm not sure it makes sense to impose a rigorous standard to something that should make level editing as streamlined as possible.

Anyway, blur, sounds good.

True. Maybe some kind of step-by-step-walkthrough to change it manually to include the new features if you have a nonstandard ini file?

Hey I can't get this version to work. I put the files in my Jazz2 folder, run plushier, makes a new executable. i run it, gets to the menu, then crashes. What am I doing wrong? I can't even get my old version of plus to run now.

You didn't need to run plusifier. You just needed to replace the plus.dll file.
Works fine for me

If you ever crash while trying to run JJ2 or JJ2+, please post a screenshot of the Access Violation message if any and include your jazz2.log. It usually helps a lot.