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Cobra

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Sep 8, 2002, 07:32 AM
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If they can be proud even though opressed, why can't homophobes? You were born that way ;p
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Sep 8, 2002, 10:11 AM
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It's "homo" now un-filtered?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cobra
If they can be proud even though opressed, why can't homophobes? You were born that way ;p
I would also argue that since homosexuality is a gift from god, so to is homophobia. ;-P

If you argue to that, that homophobia is a mental illness, I argue: Why then do we not hear of homosexuals back in history? Obviously because it is something which is created by society today, and thus, a mental condition. Also, to that add to that: Mental illness' aren't gifts from god. God would not create a personality which had flaws. He simply gave us the bodies and the freedom to do what we want with them. As such, you can not argue that homosexuality is a gift from god.

There are of course certain cases, such as males being born with a hormone imbalance and thus showing more feminine qualities. This, however is related to the chemicals in one's body and thus, a physical condition. Yet again, this is not a gift from god but it something brought about, most likely by the increase in the chemicals used in daily household items. Soup, food, electronics, etc. Because this is a physical dissability, it does not fall under the category of homosexuality. IMHO.
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Sep 9, 2002, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Krezack
I would also argue that since homosexuality is a gift from god, so to is homophobia. ;-P

If you argue to that, that homophobia is a mental illness, I argue: Why then do we not hear of homosexuals back in history?
To use your style : If you argue that there haven't been homosexual's throughout history, I argue that I can tell you haven't had all of your history (or maybe weren't paying attention that day...(; ). In Roman society, for instance, homosexual behaviour was openly condoned and practiced at the highest (and practically every other) level of society (e.g. many Emperors, senators, tribunes, etc etc). In FACT, it was a sometimes-held belief that bisexual behaviour was the norm and that homo and heterosexuals were a departure from that norm. Of course, that is discrimination just as bad as homophobia (and it was not all-pervasive by any means), but it just goes to illustrate the state of affairs in Rome. In the Greek tradition homosexuality comes up as well.

It could also be argued that homosexuality was not as visible in the far more restrictive and socially backward (at the time--no offense, Europeans ;P) European cultures because of a combination of factors : first, that the repression was such that people would have been wary of even thinking about being different. Secondly, literacy was rare, non-existent in many rural areas and communication was just as spotty. Many medieval and ancient European homosexuals had no idea what it was that was different about them and wouldn't have had the foggiest idea what to do--so they stayed silent, and lived normal lives (or what would have been considered a normal life). Today, with the high literacy rates, lots of communication and support for homosexuals, it only makes sense that more are brought to light.

Since your entire argument rests on the lynchpin of the nonexistence of homosexuals throughout history, it now falls to bits. Furthermore, by your classification the smallpox vaccine would be a disease, so would literacy, atomic theory, television, etc etc. Enlightenment would be a mental illness.

FURTHERMORE, you argue of the mental-illness-ness of homosexuality because it did not exist through history, and by impication suggest that homophobia is permissible for that reason as well (that it has existed throughout history). Even ignoring the Romans and Greeks--since when do you take your social cues from ignorant and illiterate medieval peasantry? They also burned "witches" at the stake, would you condone that? Since it existed all through history, it must be ok, RIGHT?
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Last edited by Paul; Sep 9, 2002 at 02:52 AM.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul
To use your style : If you argue that there haven't been homosexual's throughout history, I argue that I can tell you haven't had all of your history (or maybe weren't paying attention that day...(; ). In Roman society, for instance, homosexual behaviour was openly condoned and practiced at the highest (and practically every other) level of society (e.g. many Emperors, senators, tribunes, etc etc). In FACT, it was a sometimes-held belief that bisexual behaviour was the norm and that homo and heterosexuals were a departure from that norm. Of course, that is discrimination just as bad as homophobia (and it was not all-pervasive by any means), but it just goes to illustrate the state of affairs in Rome. In the Greek tradition homosexuality comes up as well.

It could also be argued that homosexuality was not as visible in the far more restrictive and socially backward (at the time--no offense, Europeans ;P) European cultures because of a combination of factors : first, that the repression was such that people would have been wary of even thinking about being different. Secondly, literacy was rare, non-existent in many rural areas and communication was just as spotty. Many medieval and ancient European homosexuals had no idea what it was that was different about them and wouldn't have had the foggiest idea what to do--so they stayed silent, and lived normal lives (or what would have been considered a normal life). Today, with the high literacy rates, lots of communication and support for homosexuals, it only makes sense that more are brought to light.

Since your entire argument rests on the lynchpin of the nonexistence of homosexuals throughout history, it now falls to bits. Furthermore, by your classification the smallpox vaccine would be a disease, so would literacy, atomic theory, television, etc etc. Enlightenment would be a mental illness.

FURTHERMORE, you argue of the mental-illness-ness of homosexuality because it did not exist through history, and by impication suggest that homophobia is permissible for that reason as well (that it has existed throughout history). Even ignoring the Romans and Greeks--since when do you take your social cues from ignorant and illiterate medieval peasantry? They also burned "witches" at the stake, would you condone that? Since it existed all through history, it must be ok, RIGHT?
If you will re-read my post, you will realise I never said anyway in it that what I say is fact. You will also find that was merely pointing out that every hard cold fact which someone produces about homophobes or homosexuals can be disputed in some form or another. And I am not going by MY classification. I am going by Veggies. I never even said the word disease in my post aswell, thank you very much. ALSO, my arguements were manlly based on the fact that according to veggie, homosexuality is a gift from god, not on the fact that real homosexuality didn't exist back then. You suggest that the ancient romans and greeks were a mainly bisexual culture. What proof do you have?Nude statues of men? They had those of women too. Public bathouses? Many many cultures have had those. Doesn't make them bisexual/homosexual.

Yet another flaw in your post: You are classify REAL homosexuals and people who want to be/think they are homosexual under the same category. Is a kid who prefers his best mate do stuff to him rather than a girl do it, the same as a kid who, due to a hormonal imbalance, gets sexually aroused by boys rather than girls?

And lastly: Is homosexuality part of nature? Do you see homosexual animals? Surely god would have "gifted" them with it aswell?

Look, i'm frankly tired of talking about this. You wont change my mind and I wont change yours. Goodbye.
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Sep 9, 2002, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul
FURTHERMORE, you argue of the mental-illness-ness of homosexuality because it did not exist through history, and by impication suggest that homophobia is permissible for that reason as well (that it has existed throughout history). Even ignoring the Romans and Greeks--since when do you take your social cues from ignorant and illiterate medieval peasantry? They also burned "witches" at the stake, would you condone that? Since it existed all through history, it must be ok, RIGHT?
And no, I don't argue that. That would be my reply to someone who was argueing that homophobia is a mental illness. If it is, so to is homosexuality. That is basically the basis of the arguement I would put fourth.
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—Stanisław Lem, Imaginary Magnitude (1973)
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Sep 9, 2002, 03:49 AM
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There are ..homosexual animals. ;P


..And we're animals.. aren't we? We just make a too big deal out of it.
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SSF

This thread is starting to scare me... o.0
*sings*
YOU AND ME BABY ARE NOTHING BUT MAMMALS LA LA LALAL LA LA ON THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL!!!

I've completely forgotten that, it's been so many years now, I'm starting to scare myself 0.o
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I have lots of bisexual friends, I have barely any homosexual friends, but it seems during the teenage years people (esp. females) seem to have a tendancy towards bisexuality, which may or may not change when teenage years are over. Anyway, I have nothing against bisexuals or homosexuals as people, but I won't lie to you by saying I think it isn't a 'sin'.

No, I don't think being homosexual or bisexual would exclusively kick your out of Heaven. The God I worship can erase all sins, whether or not they are still going on when they die or whatever, that's too conditional. He forgives unconditionally, and so I believe that a homo/bisexual can go to Heaven. I also believe that it's something they are born with, and they cannot change themselves. I mean, people are born with natural tendancies. I don't believe it's really raw genetics, I think it's psychological, but it is natural nevertheless. Just like how some people are more prone to lie, or to be outgoing, or to be athletic, they're born with it. It's not something they choose, it's just who they are. Because of this I have nothing against them, and frankly my views on it won't really matter in the long run, just thought I'd add in my 2 cents.
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Quote:
Originally posted by GuMmYBeAr!
..And we're animals.. aren't we? We just make a too big deal out of it.
*scratches her neck*

*jumps onto the couch*

*runs around in circles*

*lays down*

*sleeps*

Uhm.. yes.
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Quote:
Originally posted by GuMmYBeAr!
There are ..homosexual animals. ;P
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—Stanisław Lem, Imaginary Magnitude (1973)
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Stop with all the stupid theories about why homophobia is allowed please! It's just not having respect for other people, which is wrong! We should always respect other's feelings and besides, someone who'se homosexual can't help it either, he/she's born that way.

I hate discrimination like this... >_<
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Unhappy

Que Passa!!!!

Yeah, I agree. Plus all this stuff about mental illnesses is making me feel a little... unloved, unnateral, and universely evil... I'm not evil, just autistic...

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SSF

Quote:
Originally posted by CraccoBoyCC
...someone who'se homosexual can't help it either, he/she's born that way...
I disagree completely, though I really dont want to debate on that topic, I have my own reasons...
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Re: SSF

Quote:
Originally posted by Disguise
I disagree completely, though I really dont want to debate on that topic, I have my own reasons...
Fish Guys,I'm dissapointed!
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Okie Dokie

One of the english kings was openly known to be homosexual. His name is Edward the II. (for those of you who have seen the movie Braveheart with Mel Gibson, Edward the II was the son of the King... Edward the I also known as Longshanks, and the guy who went flying out the window represented the lover.) Yes he was married, but the children of that union was most likely not his but from her lover Roger Mortimer.
Also what Paul said is true about the Romans and Greeks. Its has been recorded countless times and even if you watch a little of PBS (if you live in the US) you would hear about it. Homosexuality and bisexuality were much more open and accepted in those times.
Yes animals other then humans have homosexual or bi tendencies. I have some friends who have 2 male birds and we have see how they feel twards eachother so i know it exists.

I do not believe this is a sin. I could say that maybe 85% of those who claim are homosexual or bi were born that way, and the others started thinking about it cus of bad relationships or something along those lines. Why is loving who you want to love a sin? It is also a sin to judge anyone just cus they are different from you. So i guess that makes us all sinners one way or another.
Sexuality is not a mental illness, it is just the way a person feels for another person. Simple as that.

To alot of ppl I am a sinner for different reasons. I made friends with a muslim guy from Pakistan a couple of months after Sept. 11th and i got crap from ppl about that, I read about different religions from all over the world even about Wicca and i get crap from bible beaters, and for me having bi tendencies, i got lucky that my closest friends, including my bf have been wonderful about it and dont hate me for it.

This is just how i feel about this and what i know about it. My 2 pesos if you wish.
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Everyone is a sinner, there's no denying that. No one is perfect by far. Lots of us do sins on a daily basis. There is no greater or lesser degree of sinfulness, therefore no one is worse off than anyone else. We are all equal, and we all imperfect. So...if anyone calls you a sinner, they're right, and they're sinners too, so why cares?
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Quote:
originally posted by Jesus
The one who is free from sins may throw the first rock.
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I'd like to give a short explanation of my vision, my previous post was a little vague.

No excuses possible for homophobia! I'm not accepting any, just have a little respect for other people with other thoughts, that's important.
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Re: Re: SSF

Quote:
Originally posted by Piccolo
Fish Guys,I'm dissapointed!
*shakes head*
`n toe bek is `n heel bek!

Wise Afrikaans saying, the dutchies will prolly know what it is, but it definitley applies here...
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Quote:
Originally posted by Krezack
I would also argue that since homosexuality is a gift from god, so to is homophobia. ;-P

If you argue to that, that homophobia is a mental illness, I argue: Why then do we not hear of homosexuals back in history? Obviously because it is something which is created by society today, and thus, a mental condition. Also, to that add to that: Mental illness' aren't gifts from god. God would not create a personality which had flaws. He simply gave us the bodies and the freedom to do what we want with them. As such, you can not argue that homosexuality is a gift from god.
(Trafton: size restraint edit.)
I concur with Paul. I think you are missing some things here.

To paraphrase my point, I recently read a book called The Hundered Greatest People in History. The tilte would make you think that some women were included but none were. Using your logic, this *could* mean that women are either caused by modern day society. Of course, that makes no sense. I dobut that thoughts or sexual orientation is any more dependant on modern day civilization that more tangable things, such as women. I was going to argue that the reason that no homosexuals are immediately referencable in history is asimilar to the reasons why women did not make the top 100: their discoveries were "toned down" by males. But, after research, I came to the conclusion that I was mistaken. There are plenty of homosexuals in history. I can guarantee you that several people among us are, unknown to you, also homosexual or bisexual. It seems that many homophobics (and non-homophobics, as we tend to not like people unlike as as much as people asimilar to them) would think better of people if they did not know they were homosexuals than if they did know. There are two choices homophobics have: don't be afraid of homosexuals, or be suspicious of everyone, and never have any friends in fear they could turn out to be homosexual or bisexual. That's all I have to say.

Some just stay I'm a stupid 12-year-old who shouldn't care about this, but I do. If you think I shouldn't care, so be it, but I won't change for that.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Krezack
If you will re-read my post, you will realise I never said anyway in it that what I say is fact.
So...what was the point of your post? To argue a point you didn't believe in? To state facts you knew were untrue? Did you expect no one would respond...were we supposed to know somehow that you were making things up?

Generally, people don't have to assert that they're telling the truth for people to believe it. You made a claim, I disagreed. Simple as that.
Quote:
Originally posted by Krezack
I never even said the word disease in my post aswell, thank you very much
Now we're getting a little nit-picky, are we? Well, I can play that game too.

mental illness
n.
Any of various conditions characterized by impairment of an individual's normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors, such as infection or head trauma. Also called emotional illness, mental disease, mental disorder.

Quote:

ALSO, my arguements were manlly based on the fact that according to veggie, homosexuality is a gift from god, not on the fact that real homosexuality didn't exist back then.


Your argument asserted point-blank that homophobia is a mental condition. I quote, "Obviously because it is something which is created by society today, and thus, a mental condition." It is on this basis that you assert that homosexuality is not a gift from God.

Quote:

You suggest that the ancient romans and greeks were a mainly bisexual culture


That is absolutely, positively, FALSE. 100% untrue. READ MY POST, TY. My words were "In FACT, it was a sometimes-held belief that bisexual behaviour was the norm...." Notice the "sometimes" as opposed to "mainly". I went on to say "...(and it was not all-pervasive by any means)..." which doesn't scream out to me "ALL ROMANS WERE BISEXUAL! LOOKIE!"

Quote:

You suggest that the ancient romans and greeks were a mainly bisexual culture. What proof do you have?Nude statues of men? They had those of women too. Public bathouses? Many many cultures have had those. Doesn't make them bisexual/homosexual.


I have studied the latin language, Roman customs and culture for the past five years of my life--one year at the honors level and one year at the Advanced Placement level. I *think* I'd know a thing or two about Roman culture, thank you very much. There is solid documentation of a great number of homosexuals and bisexuals, including (but by NO MEANS LIMITED TO) such figures as Lucius Cornelius Sulla, if you know who he is. There is also reference made to a "Lex Scantina" text that supposedly made homosexual sex illegal in some way, shape or form. If you are aware of some of the concepts of History--one of them is that you don't find laws about something unless it's a problem. We pass legislation about tobacco because it is a PROBLEM, and it's prevalent. Obviously, some one thought that homosexual sex was a problem, and prevalent enough that he did something about it. Of course, the text of law was lost, so we know that it wasn't hugely popular or widely reproduced--we can assume that the law didn't represent the majority (or even close to one) of the population of Rome. Cicero and Plutarch also make numerous references to the institutionalized nature homosexuality in Greece, and Polybius in the 2nd cent. BC claims that many men have slightly younger male lovers. Seneca the Elder tells of the dynamics of homosexuality in a master-slave relationship. Nero himself had homosexual relations with perhaps more than one man, and rumors abound about Caesar.

So much for bath houses and statues.

Quote:

Yet another flaw in your post: You are classify REAL homosexuals and people who want to be/think they are homosexual under the same category. Is a kid who prefers his best mate do stuff to him rather than a girl do it, the same as a kid who, due to a hormonal imbalance, gets sexually aroused by boys rather than girls?


Could you please explain what you mean by that? How can you differentiate between "real" homosexuals and others? Who are you to judge what is "real" and what is not?

ho·mo·sex·u·al
adj.
Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

That covers both of your "kids", I believe. And frankly, I don't see the difference between your two hypothetical children. One would rather have homosexual relationships, the other would rather have homosexual relationships. They are both presumably attracted to their own gender.

You know Krezack, I have nothing against you. But I do have a strong opinions in this area and I must express them
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jesus Christ Superstar

If you're slate is clean
then you can throw stones
if your slate is not
then leave her ALONE!
Hehe, I couldn't resist, Piccolo gave me the perfect opener.
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Same here. I have strong opinions here as many of my friends are homosexual, and nothing against you personally.
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This topic is getting a little heated.

Please, tone it down or this post shall be closed. I don't want to see that, but seeing agressive debating like this isn't desirable either.
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Sorry. I was a little angry when I posted that. I never meant to offend anyone, especially Krezack.
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I have to admit I'm rather homophobic in some ways, maybe because of the sterotypes I see a lot from television and such. I also tend to make fun of them at times, nothing too heavy, just your normal every day type of thing. On this "scale" I'd have to rate myself a 1. I take my sexual orientation seriously, and I am in no way anything other than hetero.
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Sorry, sorry.
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Sep 9, 2002, 04:23 PM
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@Magoo:I don't think anyone should be afraid of gays and female gays. I rated myself a firm 1 and am completely straight, but my point is, if you look at a girl, say in the hall at school, you might think she is pretty. Then again you might think she is butt ugly, or just plain unattractive. Now, maybe gays are different, but i think this applies to them too. They are not just going to go around the school and every guy they see be thinking,"Wow, hes hot", so i don't think anyone has any reason to worry. Even if a gay person likes you, it might be a passing thing. There have been girls I have really liked one day, and then not had the same feelings for them the next day. I think this would be the same for gays too. Thank you for reading my opinion on the topic, and understand that I have complete respect for Magoos thoughts and I just had some of my own.

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Sep 9, 2002, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kaz
I read somewhere (or maybe thought it up) that humans are degrading since we've exceeded a point in evolution and are overpopulating the planet and so several anti-reproduction things were implemented should it happen. STDs (AIDS), homosexuality, and other stuff maybe like cancer and so on.
Hm, I've also read someone's idea that humans were evolving into an androgynous (sp) race... *shrugs*



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Sep 9, 2002, 08:35 PM
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Que Passa!!!!

I really hate to fan flames while Rome burns, but there is one more aspect Paul forgot to mention about the Greek/Roman sexual preferance: Mythology. Since legend, fables, and myths are my forte(Read my profile under hobbies.), I thought I'd bring it up. A lot of Roman and Greek gods really didn't care about the gender of the mortals they would go after, when they did go after mortals(Which was often, by the way.). Add this to all the smighting, curses, cruelty, and childish pranks, and you realise just how fortunate you are to be living in modern enlightened times. /\/\

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Sep 9, 2002, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul
So...what was the point of your post? To argue a point you didn't believe in? To state facts you knew were untrue? Did you expect no one would respond...were we supposed to know somehow that you were making things up?

Generally, people don't have to assert that they're telling the truth for people to believe it. You made a claim, I disagreed. Simple as that.


Now we're getting a little nit-picky, are we? Well, I can play that game too.

mental illness
n.
Any of various conditions characterized by impairment of an individual's normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors, such as infection or head trauma. Also called emotional illness, mental disease, mental disorder.



Your argument asserted point-blank that homophobia is a mental condition. I quote, "Obviously because it is something which is created by society today, and thus, a mental condition." It is on this basis that you assert that homosexuality is not a gift from God.

[/b]

That is absolutely, positively, FALSE. 100% untrue. READ MY POST, TY. My words were "In FACT, it was a sometimes-held belief that bisexual behaviour was the norm...." Notice the "sometimes" as opposed to "mainly". I went on to say "...(and it was not all-pervasive by any means)..." which doesn't scream out to me "ALL ROMANS WERE BISEXUAL! LOOKIE!"

[/i]

I have studied the latin language, Roman customs and culture for the past five years of my life--one year at the honors level and one year at the Advanced Placement level. I *think* I'd know a thing or two about Roman culture, thank you very much. There is solid documentation of a great number of homosexuals and bisexuals, including (but by NO MEANS LIMITED TO) such figures as Lucius Cornelius Sulla, if you know who he is. There is also reference made to a "Lex Scantina" text that supposedly made homosexual sex illegal in some way, shape or form. If you are aware of some of the concepts of History--one of them is that you don't find laws about something unless it's a problem. We pass legislation about tobacco because it is a PROBLEM, and it's prevalent. Obviously, some one thought that homosexual sex was a problem, and prevalent enough that he did something about it. Of course, the text of law was lost, so we know that it wasn't hugely popular or widely reproduced--we can assume that the law didn't represent the majority (or even close to one) of the population of Rome. Cicero and Plutarch also make numerous references to the institutionalized nature homosexuality in Greece, and Polybius in the 2nd cent. BC claims that many men have slightly younger male lovers. Seneca the Elder tells of the dynamics of homosexuality in a master-slave relationship. Nero himself had homosexual relations with perhaps more than one man, and rumors abound about Caesar.

So much for bath houses and statues.

[/b]

Could you please explain what you mean by that? How can you differentiate between "real" homosexuals and others? Who are you to judge what is "real" and what is not?

ho·mo·sex·u·al
adj.
Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

That covers both of your "kids", I believe. And frankly, I don't see the difference between your two hypothetical children. One would rather have homosexual relationships, the other would rather have homosexual relationships. They are both presumably attracted to their own gender.

You know Krezack, I have nothing against you. But I do have a strong opinions in this area and I must express them [/B]


I have nothing against you either. But I do feel strongly about this subject but cannot however express my views due to this board being 100% politically correct. Also, as you avoid critical parts of my post, I shall do the same to yours.

"ho·mo·sex·u·al
adj.
Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex."

What then, of someone who had strong sexual desire for a member of his/her family? Would that be okay too?

Batty Buddy: Just like people with a hormonal imbalance, you can't fix being autistic. That is not a sin/crime/whatever.
Turtleslayer

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Sep 9, 2002, 11:32 PM
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Gah. I just wrote a somewhat lengthy reply, clicked the preview button, and then used the browser back function to edit it-woops, reply all gone. It's too late for me to rewrite it, so the gist of it was that neither I nor most anyone else here cares a fraction of a fig about your or anyone else's sexuality, color, gender, or whatever, and we like you all the more for it. If any disagree--well, if I don't get to you first, a certain GuMmYBeAr! will kick (/) (-) if you do--and you don't want to know what (/) (-) means. 'Nuff said.

(BTW, kudos to Bobby for editing the censor.)
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Sep 10, 2002, 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by Turtleslayer
Gah. I just wrote a somewhat lengthy reply, clicked the preview button, and then used the browser back function to edit it-woops, reply all gone. It's too late for me to rewrite it, so the gist of it was that neither I nor most anyone else here cares a fraction of a fig about your or anyone else's sexuality, color, gender, or whatever, and we like you all the more for it. If any disagree--well, if I don't get to you first, a certain GuMmYBeAr! will kick (/) (-) if you do--and you don't want to know what (/) (-) means. 'Nuff said.

(BTW, kudos to Bobby for editing the censor.)
Actually, I don't disrespect tyf, wildie, whoever for being bisexual/lesbian. I have never said I do either. Don't believe me? Good, sit on it and rotate, because I don't care. (to anyone, not just you, turtle)

And you mention that you don't care about what anyone is. Does that mean you don't care if someone is a homophobe? Ha, sorry, in an annoying mood today. I can't WAIT to see your replies, people.
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Sep 10, 2002, 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by Krezack
What then, of someone who had strong sexual desire for a member of his/her family? Would that be okay too?
I won't pass judgement on this. Traditionally, people have felt that this is wrong, I refuse to be the judge of it.

However, I don't see how it is relevant. The topic is homosexuality, not incest, and I don't understand how it was relevant to the comment I was responding to. I was objecting to the fact that you were trying to draw a line (which I do not believe in the existence of) between "real" and other homosexuals. I presented evidence that there was no division. To make this comment about incest distorts the purpose of the debate and obscures the true issue.

Furthermore, as far as I can see, I responded to pretty much ever part of your last post, except the homosexual animals bit, which tyf rather took care of....
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Paul

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Sep 10, 2002, 02:50 AM
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Originally posted by Krezack
And you mention that you don't care about what anyone is. Does that mean you don't care if someone is a homophobe? Ha, sorry, in an annoying mood today. I can't WAIT to see your replies, people.
I don't object to homophobes as people, only homophobia as an idea.
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Sep 10, 2002, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul
I don't object to homophobes as people, only homophobia as an idea.
We disagree on alot of things. Let us leave it at that.

Incest: Because, depending on your feelings towards this issue, I could gauge whether you were just spouting nonsense which had been knocked into your head by your parents/school/scoiety/whatever, or whether you actually didn't care about anything which could be thought of a socially unacceptable (bar violence, whcih would be something akin to respecting satanism.). I think it is called 'Double Standards'. You artfully dodged the question however, so I have know way of knowing.

*sigh* I could swear I said I would ignore this thread.
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Sep 10, 2002, 07:08 AM
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I'd just like to add for everyone that it is not known if homosexuality is either mental or determined by our genes. It's not unlikely that it's caused by a combination of both, but i can't say that for sure. There's research being done on the topic, and there are no clear results yet.

As for homophobes: why should you dislike homosexual people? They won't bite you or something. If you think their sex life is disgusting, well... then don't think about it. I'm pretty sure there are very little people thinking about your sexuality too.
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Sep 10, 2002, 07:45 AM
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SSF

This isnt going anywhere...

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