Indeed, this is the perfect place to post your suggestions for JJ2WC Season #2 instead of bugging me on JJ2\IRC\MSN\ICQ\somewhere else. HF DD or something.

Note: your suggestions may be used for the next season if you did not understand yet.

Maybe not kill our clan after the tournament, after all, it was your claim of control that killed DT. No more comments...

Make up your mind about scoring rules before the tournament this time, and use these same rules consistently throughout the entire tournament. You should be able to make some rules that can last, now that you have had experiences with lots of different ones.

Yes, don't change rules in the middle of a game and make sure to SUPPORT, STICK TO AND REINFORCE your rules!

I'd also like to see teambattle, not just CTF and maybe even more interesting gametypes, like in JDC, only with clans. OLC has got loads of teambattle games. Hmm... teambattle streetfight/instagib? Clans could choose which gametypes to fight each other in, which will make the tournament much more fun and interesting. Plz plz plz don't just make the whole thing CTF! There are elements of teamplay in all of the other game types I mentioned. Teambattle is more than running through the opponent's whole team by yourself and hurting all of them with a line of toaster fire.

I would also like JJ2C II to expand in terms of manpower. There must be more than 3 hosts and clans should unanimously decide (or just decide) which host they want to make the games more fair. More JJ2WC admins/moderators would also be good. Afaik nobody but you, Reptile, edited the JJ2WC site. Or I may be wrong.

What I want most is definitely teambattle of some sort. It's been a long time since I last played in teambattle 1 for my clan... ;P

Apart from my puny suggestions JJ2WC II should be the same as JJ2WC I. Don't fix anything that isn't broken.

Build custom level pack, from where levels must be picked up.

/me doesn't understand Cooba

I'll add more to this later but here are some current thoughts:

1. Write your own rules. Throughout the entire tournament the rules were unclear because they did not belong to JJ2 and they were not written edited properly. Parts conflicted, were ambigious, and were consistently changed through the season. This should not be the case. I expect when joining a clan tournament that by joining I agree to make my clan show up and to also have the tournament work by the prior made rules.

2. Decide on a scoring system and way to choose levels for all parts of the tournament.

3. Have records posted on the website. The website was not nearly as useful as possible since it didn't have a history of matches and scores/commentary on each match - we should be able to see each match that was played and scores for each map.

4. Do not let clans choose the times they want to play against each other. Choosing times for clans was the single most important thing that happened during this tournament - with large groups meeting it is necessary that a time be given first and if needed changed later. However, make it clear how to change times if necessary - IE put it in the rules.

5. Create a policy for deaths on the flag.

6. Remain active - the leader of a tournament like this NEEDS to be at all matches and supervise how things are going. A clan tournament is far less stable than something like JDC where people arrange their own matches and do their own things.

7. Think about alternative ranking systems. Notice that I put think, not change. It is always important to decide how the system can be tweaked to improve various things. I've always thought a double elimination tournament would be interesting. Please feel free to ask me about any scoring or rule changes if you have questions.

Overall things went quite well in general though. Well done R3p.

WR, I mean there could be levels build especially for JJ2WC II, which are the only levels clans can play in.

Good luck with that, Cooba. I haven't seen too many good 3on3 or 4on4 levels recently.

Originally Posted by Bobby aka Dizzy

I'll add more to this later but here are some current thoughts:
4. Do not let clans choose the times they want to play against each other. Choosing times for clans was the single most important thing that happened during this tournament - with large groups meeting it is necessary that a time be given first and if needed changed later. However, make it clear how to change times if necessary - IE put it in the rules.

7. Think about alternative ranking systems. Notice that I put think, not change. It is always important to decide how the system can be tweaked to improve various things. I've always thought a double elimination tournament would be interesting. Please feel free to ask me about any scoring or rule changes if you have questions.

Agree with all except these 2 points. Letting clans choose on a date is much better and less conflicting. But it needs a system when both clans agreed they cannot change back, "EXCEPT" to use some sort of wildcard system.

NAw, double elm can work good and bad in 2 ways. It's much more fun for an "ONLINE" cup to have Groups because you have all the time of the world then to a Single/double elm. Most orga's (lan) use a single / double elm system because time is something they dont have. Online cups are mostly first groups then later on they go to a single or double elm system.

editing, hold on

Originally Posted by Bobby aka Dizzy

1. Write your own rules. Throughout the entire tournament the rules were unclear because they did not belong to JJ2 and they were not written edited properly. Parts conflicted, were ambigious, and were consistently changed through the season. This should not be the case. I expect when joining a clan tournament that by joining I agree to make my clan show up and to also have the tournament work by the prior made rules.

That's right. The rules will be much clearlier on JJ2WC II..

Originally Posted by Bobby aka Dizzy

2. Decide on a scoring system and way to choose levels for all parts of the tournament.

I already planned a way to choose maps for the next season. We will simply use a system that picks one map for each week\playday untill the finals. (e.g: Week 1 - BBLAIR, Week 2 - Semi, etc..)

[QUOTE=Bobby aka Dizzy]3. Have records posted on the website. The website was not nearly as useful as possible since it didn't have a history of matches and scores/commentary on each match - we should be able to see each match that was played and scores for each map.[/B]
I had too many problems with the website this season... it will be solved on JJ2WC II though.

Originally Posted by Bobby aka Dizzy

4. Do not let clans choose the times they want to play against each other. Choosing times for clans was the single most important thing that happened during this tournament - with large groups meeting it is necessary that a time be given first and if needed changed later. However, make it clear how to change times if necessary - IE put it in the rules.

I chose the times for this season and let the clans set another date if they can't make it. Actually, it worked perfectly.

Originally Posted by Bobby aka Dizzy

5. Create a policy for deaths on the flag.

Well, if you died on the enemy's base by mistake - we can't do anything. If clans will abuse it, they will recieve warning or something like that.

Originally Posted by Bobby aka Dizzy

6. Remain active - the leader of a tournament like this NEEDS to be at all matches and supervise how things are going. A clan tournament is far less stable than something like JDC where people arrange their own matches and do their own things.

I was presented on all the match of this season except one\two. SkulL was there, though, and that's of course his job as a co-supervisior.

Originally Posted by Bobby aka Dizzy

7. Think about alternative ranking systems. Notice that I put think, not change. It is always important to decide how the system can be tweaked to improve various things. I've always thought a double elimination tournament would be interesting. Please feel free to ask me about any scoring or rule changes if you have questions.

Double-elimination would be great bigger tournaments with 16 clans or more. We can't get more than 10 clans as far as I know, though, then we have to use a group stage and then single-elimination or just a league with 4-5 matches per week.

Originally Posted by R3ptile

Well, if you died on the enemy's base by mistake - we can't do anything.

Build levels where it's difficult to. ;p

Yeah, maybe a level with the bases like ZeRoX, so the opponent can't score that way... unless they die in a tube when you just shot in it... but I don't think that will happen.

A better website.

Originally Posted by DarkSonic

Yeah, maybe a level with the bases like ZeRoX, so the opponent can't score that way... unless they die in a tube when you just shot in it... but I don't think that will happen.

That level is rather bad for clanwars and it's not really as fun as BBLAIR, Semi, etc... no thanks.

Don't ignore my post... ;P You can't die on the flag in teambattle... ;P
And plz plz plz! Assault would be so cool! Not many assault games or lvls exist so it would be great if clans could choose between different game types.

Originally Posted by White Rabbit

Don't ignore my post... ;P You can't die on the flag in teambattle... ;P
And plz plz plz! Assault would be so cool! Not many assault games or lvls exist so it would be great if clans could choose between different game types.

Multiple gametypes is quite bad. Teambattle has many glitches, it wouldn't be so good for an offical clanwar. I might try a Jailbreak tournament in the future, though.

Assault pwns all. Seriously.

(Remember that time when we played against Cell and someone else I don't remember, WR? gg)

Originally Posted by Fl@$h

A better website.

Better? What do you mean when you say "better"?.. (It wasn't really helpful)

One that doesn't go down each day, one that offers detailed statistics about the matches, has a nice design (the last one really sucked) and maybe it's own forum.

No Flash, I didn't like that game. We lost.

But assault games and the assault game type remains l33t.

I also don't see what is wrong with multiple game types. We can force you, Reptile, if enough ppl agree. (Yay for democracy!).

A better site with more detailed content would be very helpful, but a forum would complicate things. Why not just start a dedicated JJ2WC topic at JCF or, even better, start a dedicated JJ2WC SECTION ON THE JCF!

I'd say this year was great except for the changing of the rules during the tournament.
I like the new idea of 1 map being played 1 week.
As for the levels, I'm sure there will be some kind of vote. I do suggest we don't allow one or 2 of this years levels to be in the pool next year(semi, bblair and zaitox were the most played, sbv2 would be, but the clans who favoured it, didnt get through the preliminaries...)

I think BBlair, Semi and Zaitox should be removed from the Map Pool but the others should remain as they were not played so much. Perhaps a new Poll for 3 more maps?

Next time don't call it World Championship if it is a tournament between clans. WC's are for countries only.

As Flash said, a better website with extra functions would be a good thing. I offer hosting

Originally Posted by Fl@$h

Assault pwns all. Seriously.

Assault is too complicated for most of the people in this community and there aren't many maps of this gamemode. Also, it has to be played as at least 5on5 or it wouldn't be fun at all.

Originally Posted by Fl@$h

One that doesn't go down each day, one that offers detailed statistics about the matches, has a nice design (the last one really sucked) and maybe it's own forum.

The design doesn't really matter... I had to make something in a rush because none in this community really wanted to make a good one. About the match statistics, the site went down too many times and I was too lazy to update the HTML through Front Page Express with all those matches and write decent reports.

I wanted to write statistics about match scores (how much scores for each player, the player who scored the most, etc...) but it's pretty hard to keep track of those scores when there are couple of them in a few seconds.

Originally Posted by Gr33n Pl4nt

I think BBlair, Semi and Zaitox should be removed from the Map Pool but the others should remain as they were not played so much. Perhaps a new Poll for 3 more maps?

We will try some less popular maps like Swingin' Jazz, Medieval Skyscrapers and Dirty Laundry, but we will keep playing the popular ones on the finals.

Originally Posted by ChippieBW

WC's are for countries only.

Since this tournament is world wide, I don't see any reason to do not call it "World Championship". By the way, if you already reply on this topic - at least make sense.

At first, I think that multiple gametypes isn't a bad idea, but I don't care so much after all will there be more than just CTF.

As well, I'd like that the website had more details. And you also promised to write complete match-reports about every match from semi-finals to grand-finals, and you still haven't written them.

But the thing I'd care in jj2wc II(or whatever it should be called if not world cup), would be that there would be a little more non-popular levels, and so the cup-organizer would choose the levels himself for one week. If there's just a mappool where the clans can choose to play in, they won't play any of the non-popular levels of course, as you saw at this season that nobody picked JE or Marsh. People should learn new maps as well as train in the old ones.

Originally Posted by Superjazz

At first, I think that multiple gametypes isn't a bad idea, but I don't care so much after all will there be more than just CTF.

Playing multiple gametypes would be bad, a clan could be extremely good in Bsnk Robbery but obviously bad in Assassination, etc... we are not going to change the gamemode in the close future.

If there's just a mappool where the clans can choose to play in, they won't play any of the non-popular levels of course, as you saw at this season that nobody picked JE or Marsh. People should learn new maps as well as train in the old ones.

As I said, we will try some less popular levels on next season, but we will keep playing the popular ones on the finals.


Please, do not repeat other people.. your suggestions are supposed to be somewhat helpful.

I have to agree strongly with R3ptile that playing multiple gametypes or doing it in something other than CTF is a very risky and bad idea. If other styles of changes were to be played it would have to be worth fewer points or something.

On how to keep statistics and such. I don't know if many people remember iCeD's dedicated server but he used Link's chat capture program and a some simple text editing commands (regular expressions would make this really easy I'm sure) to extract who was killed, roasted, scored, captured etc. Doing something like this again wouldn't be very hard and could add a lot to the website. If this tournament happens again we should have the servers running a JJ2 chat capture so these statistics can be easily generated after the match.

Originally Posted by Bobby aka Dizzy

On how to keep statistics and such. I don't know if many people remember iCeD's dedicated server but he used Link's chat capture program and a some simple text editing commands (regular expressions would make this really easy I'm sure) to extract who was killed, roasted, scored, captured etc. Doing something like this again wouldn't be very hard and could add a lot to the website. If this tournament happens again we should have the servers running a JJ2 chat capture so these statistics can be easily generated after the match.

That would be a good idea if we could get someone to make a program like this. It would very useful for many tournaments, but especially JJ2WC.

There will be a new season, somewhere around June 2005 or maybe even a bit earlier.. I can't annouce the offical date yet, though.

Whoa woah woah, June? Why not July, when most ppl are having their summer holidays? Ppl are probably still at school in June (those jazzers that are still young(ish), that is) so July would attract the most players and offering more flexible match times because ppl can play during the mornings and late into the nights.

I also don't see why assault is too complicated (the jj2 community is NOT stupid) and why 3v3 in assault lvls won't work. Even 2v2 in assault is fun to play. But I guess that you're sticking to your opinion, Reptile, so I'll just let assault and the other game types drop right... here. *thud!*

I have a couple of new lvl suggestions:
Swinging Jazz, 7th Lava Fall, more Cell lvls (try taking lvls from Evil CTF pack or Realms of Chaos), lvls from Future Evolution (lvls in this pack are BIG and therefore suited to clanwars), J.A.I.L and maybe even TSF ctf lvls for clans with players that have TSF (Fright Night CTF, Defense of the Paradise), Deep in the Jungle (I betatested it and though the lvl isn't popular, it has a lot of playability). We could also lock stripe and Cell together in a room and force them to make l33t ctf lvls together and they will get one meal + 2 glasses of water per lvl they make.

We may even try a new system of scoring, like WC3 clanwars:

2x 1on1
2x 2on2
1x 3on3

Every round victory makes you recieve one point. That might work and it will be more attractive, but we will have to vote (yay for democracy?) for different ways when the season will be closer.

While that would be a nice thing to try, I'm not really for it. I fear it will make matches even longer than they already were. TF tried that type of clanwar against CC once. It worked, but did take about an entire evening.

And I agree with WR on the date part. Most people have their finals in June, so it may not be the best of times to play a tournament.

Originally Posted by R3ptile

We may even try a new system of scoring, like WC3 clanwars:

2x 1on1
2x 2on2
1x 3on3

Every round victory makes you recieve one point. That might work and it will be more attractive, but we will have to vote (yay for democracy?) for different ways when the season will be closer.

Personally I think there should be about 4 1vs1's at least

Originally Posted by Gr33n Pl4nt

Personally I think there should be about 4 1vs1's at least

I would disagree, this is a clan war, not a giant 1 vs 1 dueling event. I don't think there should be more then two 1 vs 1, preferably none at all.

I think this tournament should be actually started at 1st August, instead of June, since there are so many people who are still in school at June, although my school ends in May. It doesn't matter for me so much although my school starts again in the middle of August, anyways if all the matches would be played at weekends. So, it shouldn't matter much if the tournament would be played on those dates. I'm not able to play at July at all, I'm away from home the whole month.

i really would have 2 agree that playing 1v1's and 2v2's is not kewl at all.
Plus its harder 2 organize and takes more time. This was simple and kewl, lets not fix what doesnt need fixing...
I'm not reall in to these other game modes myself, and I think that the only other 2 game modes that have any chance of being played are team battle and jailbreak. Assault is kinda lame especially since most of the assault levels are very big...
As for the month, huh june suits me fine, and I'd say its kewl, cuz school is starting to wear off, and the summer holidays dont start yet. Cuz during the holidays there will be problems with getting the whole team 2 play...
Ohh and, a legendary level like swinging jazz must be played, and i mean MUST

Teams will be forced to play levels like Swingin' Jazz and The Marshland of Evil during the season. >D

Gj. Force!

reptile, ur a demigod