Originally Posted by ShadowRabbit

I was wondering whether I could run an Australian listserver as Battle Server sometimes comes up on JazzTool as Distance: Too far.

That wouldn't help you at all. the list servers just mirror the IP address for the servers being hosted. The ping is the result of your computer physically being too far away from the servers being hosted. Hosting your own list server would benefit you naught.

Yet it would benefit the many unknown Australian players a lot because we'd all get pinging status's.

Oh, and I should randomly plop on a plane, go to U.S.A or somewhere close, set up my computer and play at 12 years of age?
Yeah, really intelligent.

Originally Posted by ShadowRabbit

Yet it would benefit the many unknown Australian players a lot because we'd all get pinging status's.

Here is the syntax of what the list server actually sends:

(size) (?) (IP in hex, reversed) 27 (Server name)

As you can see, the list servers do NOT send the actual game data to the clients. Nor do they have control over the games that are listed. Case dismissed.

Originally Posted by UNKNOWNFILE

I know that. But consider the fact that the people who play JJ2 are mostly from the Netherlands, and that a Dutch list server would be relatively fast to access for the Dutch population.

If you really think the 1ms or 2ms benefit Dutch users will get from a list server hosted in the Netherlands is worth campaigning for, go ahead.

But seems you want to argue about the location, I might as well explain why the UK is a good choice for placement. From what I read years ago (so yeah, it may be different now) 2/3 of the traffic from Europe to America passes via England. To ensure a good speed for both American and European clients, the best place for a list server would either be the United Kingdom or the East Coast of the United States.

But now we're working on deployment a network (the only thing holding us back is a proper patching method which is being worked on) and even with the new network, it still works out nicely:



(For those of you not in one of the circles, you just need to pick the nearest to you which offers you the fastest list access)

Now, I honestly see no major benefit of moving to a Dedicated Server in the Netherlands. I have no intention of shutting down operation in the UK just because you feel the 1ms/2ms improvement for Dutch users is vitally important for list operation.

This is also hopefully the last post I have to make in here, as everyone has pointed out to you Unknownfile, your not capable of arguing because as soon as someone makes a good point at you, you just ignore them and try to find a error to laugh at.

AHEM!
*cough cough*

To be quite honest, I don't think anybody much cares.

JJ2 is an unsupported game. The fact that the world is not covered in the list server network is none of our concern, considering you're the only person to have spoken out about it.

Consider this. There are approximately 8 billion people on the face of the Earth. Remember that you are 1 of these people. Then remember how many zeroes are in a billion. That's a lot more than just 1.


Plus, Nimrod added a caption beneath that picture. Try reading the post next time.

And there's actually a few not-JCF registered Australians so it's kinda unfair on us, as we get a slow connection. ;P

Thank you for proving his point, UF.

(For the record UF's post contained an attack which completely proved Nimrod's previous point)

He wasn't drunk. ;P
Post rendered useless.

ShadowRabbit has a point. Your listservers cover a lot of the US and Europe, but you're neglecting Australia and the empty half of Russia.

Originally Posted by Radium

ShadowRabbit has a point. Your listservers cover a lot of the US and Europe, but you're neglecting Australia and the empty half of Russia.

"Asia"?
And, uh, that's the west coast, not the east coast.

Originally Posted by Nimrod

(For those of you not in one of the circles, you just need to pick the nearest to you which offers you the fastest list access)

I just don't think that the list servers should be run in the UK. They should be run in the Netherlands, where there are a lot more people.

Server bandwidth depends more on the distance of the host. I live in the east kootenays, and I know a server is nearby in Calgary Ab. when it is less than 60ms. Nimrod has a very good point with the location. You are looking for COVERAGE, not RESPONCE.

No.

My point exactly.

I only set up the bouncer to let them on. Other than that, not really.

But you still worked with them. You gave them the way to get back onto the servers. That makes you an accomplice.

An Australian listserver wold cover Indonesia but a Russian listserver would take care of Asia.

Originally Posted by ShadowRabbit

An Australian listserver wold cover Indonesia but a Russian listserver would take care of Asia.

I don't think we have JJ2 players in Indonesia to speak of.

I'm also not sure we have enough Australians to justify a list server there.

Originally Posted by ShadowRabbit

An Australian listserver wold cover Indonesia but a Russian listserver would take care of Asia.

I do not think it is worth setting up an entire server to speed up the connection for what is about one or two players (you, and peharps someone else). Servers are time consuming and costly.

If you guys actually went on JJ2 often inside the times that Australians would be on you'd see there's quite a few.

Originally Posted by ShadowRabbit

If you guys actually went on JJ2 often inside the times that Australians would be on you'd see there's quite a few.

If you pay for and moderate the list server, I am more than sure that something could be worked out. The problem is just, you're not, so there's not really anything to talk about. The current list server is fine, upgrade your connection if anything.

Originally Posted by ShadowRabbit

If you guys actually went on JJ2 often inside the times that Australians would be on you'd see there's quite a few.

Just because Australians would be on at those times doesn't mean that they are Australian. If you could get an active petition going, you might be able to rack up support.

But seeing as how you've yet to prove that they are Australian and want such a server or that they are having difficulty with the current listserver setups, there's no reason to do it.

And for the record, lots of people have asked for the list server in the past, and many of them came out empty-handed and disappointed. You're probably no exception.

I am amused at the number of people who think that having a list server next door will let them connect to more *game* servers.

Just to clarify things: there are two sorts of servers used when playing JJ2 online. One sort are list servers. Think of a list server as a sort of telephone enquiries system. It has a list of all game servers, along with where the game servers are. You contact the list server, and ask it for a list of games. It then gives you a snapshot of it's list. It doesn't matter if this takes a while. A few hundred milliseconds is fine, even a whole second or two. All it's doing is giving you a list. With the number of JJ2 players, an old 486 on a 28.8k modem would probably be enough (no offence to Nimrod and his plans for world-wide list-server domination).

The other sort of server is the game server. This is the actual server you connect to when you're playing an online game of JJ2. Now, this server has to do a lot of things, like deal with everyone moving around in the level and tell other players where everyone is, who's taking pot-shots at who, and what's up with the blue flag that just got nicked. This server has to both a) send a lot more data, and b) send it in real-time (a delay of ~100ms gets annoying, and more than ~300ms is often unplayable). Think of it as a conference call with other people: if you're too far behind, then you won't be able to keep track of what's going on.

To get a list of servers, all you need is a list server somewhere you can access. To play online without too much lag, what you need is a game server somewhere relatively nearby (note that 'nearby' can be a few countries away, if the intermediate connection is good enough

Oh, and server bandwidth does *not* depend on the distance of the host. Bandwidth is how much data you can send per second, not how long it takes to get there. Think of your connection as a pipe: the bigger the pipe, the larger the bandwidth. A longer pipe means stuff takes more time to get from one end to the other.

So, a petition it is.
*starts new poll*

so, the people here would get the best speed?

Actually, I made a List Server Coverage map.

I'm in the pink and I still have to 5 or so seconds for the list servers to pop up.
Apparently, an Australian Listserver will not fix anything.

Originally Posted by n00b

I'm in the pink and I still have to 5 or so seconds for the list servers to pop up.

In the pink you are still rather far from both. You just happen to be really far from two of them at once.

Those coverage maps, even Nimrod's first one, are useless. Anyone with Internet access is 'covered'. Furthermore, the connection speed related to geographic distance from the list servers is negligible beside your own slow residential connection. And as BoggyB quite adequately explained, speed and latency (delay) are not even important for a server that just gives you a short list.

For me, in western Canada, a ping reply from Nimrod's server takes about 130ms. Monolith's is about half that, while Contrabandent (US) is also about 130ms. Consider that human perception time at its best is around 500ms (milliseconds). A blink of the eye takes 100–150ms.

While in Australia, Monolith's is around 370ms and I don't have the IP of the others so I can't tell.

Nimrod's server pings from 130ms to 280ms.

Still,

Consider that human perception time at its best is around 500ms (milliseconds).

Originally Posted by Radium

In the pink you are still rather far from both. You just happen to be really far from two of them at once.

Then we must make a listserver around here so I can get my full coverage!

Originally Posted by n00b

Then we must make a listserver around here so I can get my full coverage!

Uhmmmm...
Is this sarcasticness?

OMG GUYS WE FORGETS ABOUT SOUTH AMERICA LOL.

I stated in a previous post that the bandwith depends on the LOCATION of the GAME server, not the location of the LIST server.


Shall I point it out in text diagram?

You start up jj2 and tell it to find some partymode games. so:


Your computer-> Thousands of kilometers of wire-> List server


The list server give you a list of games that are on currently. so:


List server-> Thousands of kilometers of wire-> Your computer


You choose a game ("UFS SERVER OF DOOM LOL") so, your computer sends out a connection request to the GAME SERVER. so:

Your computer -> Thousands of kilometers of wire -> Game server

Get it? The list server only detects games in progress. The reason we have to connect to them when we start a new game server is to let the list servers know the game is online.

BTW my post was the sarcastic conclusion I've been setting up for a while.
In case it wasnt obvious

Originally Posted by ShadowRabbit

Actually, I made a List Server Coverage map.

I made it better.

1 luv u ))

Stop complaining, noone cares. Nimrod and Monolith win.