I still don't think it's needed, and if it is, I bet Neobeo can, since he messed with those things with his anims-editor.

Originally Posted by Grytolle

I still don't think it's needed, and if it is, I bet Neobeo can, since he messed with those things with his anims-editor.

My name appears 5 times in this thread so far.

It appears there are two parts to this question.

1) Is there need for bullet trajectories to be calculated in the dedicated server?

Yes. When a client shoots, he basically sends a simple packet saying "I shot this weapon, which is powered-up/normal at this gunspot". Then the server will decide if the shot hits another player and replies appropriately. Sure, the client may see that his bullet actually hits the player, but if the server did not, then the client won't actually see that player getting hurt.

2) Can Neobeo do it?

Tough. For a start, messing with anims gives no clue to calculations of trajectories. What happens is that you need to completely re-compute it from scratch, or extract the info from the ASM, and I'd prefer the latter. Theoretically, how I would go about doing this is to intercept the ASM of a function where the server receives the shoot packet, and extract from there. This is not an impossible task, but the conversion could be a very tedious process.

With regards to the original topic of ideas for such a project, everything I can think of right now has already been mentioned here.

I'll just make you a bit more popular, so...
Neobeo rocks! Neobeo rocks! Neobeo rocks! Neobeo rocks! Neobeo rocks! Neobeo rocks! Neobeo rocks! Neobeo rocks! Neobeo rocks! Neobeo rocks! Neobeo rocks! Neobeo rocks! Neobeo rocks! Neobeo rocks! Neobeo rocks!

As I said, we probably won't have to do complex trajectory calculation for every weapon, but only for few weapons - those that don't follow a straight line to be precise. Most weapon trajectories can easily be described by a straight line - single struct/vector (has a direction, projectile speed, damage and lifetime). Personally if the calculations are to be done in C++, I'd do them in OOP with class inheritance (sort of the way Unreal engine works).

I wonder if we can get coop working properly.

Unknownfile was well on his way to do that, by altering jj2's code in memory (coopfix) which gives me hope that it can be done in this project aswell. :P

I wonder who are Neobeo-fans on this community. Put me on the list plz.

Next, the coop mode hosting would be GREAT! I have no idea how teams work in JJ2, but if possible add team coop too :P would be funny for clanwars.

Im a Neobeo fan ;(

what's so ;( about that? let's make a Neobeo fanclub site =D

Yes

Originally Posted by Jerrythabest

I have no idea how teams work in JJ2, but if possible add team coop too :P would be funny for clanwars.

Teams only work in team baised gamemodes (to my knowlage) and that would consist of only ctf.

btw.. any progress?

Yep. Basically I have the whole thing sketched on a paper. Neobeo is currently working on the server and I'm documenting some other stuff that will come handy in the future.

kay.. sounds great!

nice slogan in your sig btw

Originally Posted by Birdie

Teams only work in team baised gamemodes (to my knowlage) and that would consist of only ctf.

Teams don't have to "work". They could be simulated by the server (e.g. renaming player's names to add colour etc).

And yes, the project is going quite well. For those who play online JJ2 often, they might have noticed the occasional server named azure moon or Dreaded Vertices. These are the dedicated server at work, and they usually go online to test uncertain parts of the protocol (on unsuspecting players).

now we suspect

kay, I'll keep an eye on the list

EDIT: theres an error in the listing.. there are only two spaces after the version number :/ now it screws up my gip script XD

anyway, cant connect

Originally Posted by Neobeo

the occasional server named azure moon

So that explains the ping time of 1337something :P It didn't work when I saw it, though

version 1.337 ping time 133700XXXms players 13/37

UPDATE: The dedicated server project is looking really great. Much of the network protocol has been implemented at this point, but now it's coming down to design flaws in the original game.

Which brings us to the main discussion, a conflict of goals. One of the main goals of the project is full backward compatibility, and yet there must be change for these bugs to be fixed.

For example, should teamchat be fixed so that it only sends to players of the same team, or stick with the odd/even system in the original game? If the 'bug' is fixed, this implies changing the original features of the game, and might even cause confusion to players in the server unaware that the server is using a 'fixed teamchat' protocol.

Then there are also other problems like what the server sees differing from the clients', most important of these the Trigger Scenery event. I'm not sure if this is considered a feature rather than a bug, but I frequently get killed by ammo travelling through trigger sceneries which are masked on my clientside but unmasked on the serverside. Should 'features' like these remain on the dedicated server or should they be changed?

Well, there are probably more server-client problems, but this should do for a start. In general, the main concern is whether the server should retain properties of the original game, including bugs, or scrap all that into a completely new system. Where should the line be drawn?

Discuss.

Trash the odd/even system. We need teamchat these days! :P
Maybe you could make an *option* to show a message like "This server has fixed teamchat".

As for the Trigger Zone event, some levels depend on the independency of Trigger Zones, so I would say just keep it the way it is or make it another option, so that you can choose to 'un-fix' Trigger Zones. In my opinion, a good server program is a flexible one. And thus one with options.

Personally I would go for improvements. We have the old game for the old stuff, but now we have a chance to improve things a bit. There is no harm in a fixed teamchat. While new players may not know/care about it, it can definitely cheer up players, who know they are playing on a fixed dedicated server. I'm not sure what benefits/drawbacks it might bring, but the trigger system is to be discussed in detail tho. If nothing else, we can at least have the user choose what fixes the server should run.

I would just fix everything that could be fixed. Even the trigger system. If people want to use the old system, they can always bring up a server themselves. Strange trigger systems aren't very common in normal battle and ctf levels anyway.

Originally Posted by Neobeo

Then there are also other problems like what the server sees differing from the clients', most important of these the Trigger Scenery event. I'm not sure if this is considered a feature rather than a bug, but I frequently get killed by ammo travelling through trigger sceneries which are masked on my clientside but unmasked on the serverside. Should 'features' like these remain on the dedicated server or should they be changed?

I've always worried about this issue which is why many of my levels using team-based triggers have bomb scenery events next to trigger scenery. I would think a true fix to such a problem would have to be client-side as well. And you would probably have to let all projectiles pass through trigger scenery, as awkward as that might look, as opposed to destroying them on contact similar to what bomb scenery does.

If there is any conflict over if something should be one way or another (such as full emulation or fixes), then it should be left as an option to the user. And then the default setting of the option should be whatever works best, or whatever most people will want.

Teamchat ought to be fixed. Maybe leave an option for old style teamchat, but at least make it work properly by default. And put brackets around it for even players, like it should have (unless this can only be fixed clientside).

When thinking of other "bugs" to fix, remember that some things work more like unintended features. This includes things like bouncers going through walls, and trigger zones only affecting local players vs trigger crates affecting the entire server. This sort of stuff is strange, but has become somewhat vital to a lot of the gameplay. Plus if stuff like bouncers were fixed, weapon tragectories would be different between client and server.

Bascially all I'm saying is bugfixes are good, but be careful what's really being fixed.

seconded teamchat can just be fixed, I dont know why one would like it unfixed. IMO, trigger zomes as well as the bouncers should act the same as they do now by default.

now a completely other thing: how about the flagbug? can that be some way fixed server-side? also the bug that you sometimes don't take the flag could use a fix. and I think it wont have respawning/seeker hole bugs? :P

Maybe let the flag bug in if it's unfixable, but find a way to stop making it show "Blabla captured the flag", like in censoring that sentence after 5 times?

if theres no warp target, can you control that too? so that it sends you to.. say.. a start position

Camou/Jerry what you are talking about is done client-side and the server has nothing to do with it, therefore it cannot do anything about it. The only way to avoid it is with a good level design.

aww sad =(
ah well then, let's design good levels

Originally Posted by Jerrythabest

if theres no warp target, can you control that too? so that it sends you to.. say.. a start position

Unless the server dynamically fixes the level before uploading the "version with no bad warp" to the client. Then again, warps with no warp target are almost always made intentionally... right?

yeah true
we'll just have to watch our steps then =)

Wow. I remember how I always wanted to do this, a WHILE back.

Great ideas, and it good that things are going rather well. It's been a while since I set foot here, but it seems like the hacking spirit here sure hasn't died. From what I've seen from perusing around here, a lot of these programs and "patches" are made from playing around with the assembly? Wild.

If you guys need any help, I wouldn't mind lending a hand here or there. I don't have a lot of time, at least for the next few weeks until classes end, but this does seem like a very neat project.

I couldn't get a clear answer from looking through this thread: is this meant to be platform idependent? I couldn't see how it would be terribly difficult, as none of it sounds like it would be Windows-dependent.

Let me know, and have fun. : )

-Cheeze

Well, seeing as it runs on console, it should be portable (save for the fact that I write very unportable code since I've never ported). Platform-independence was initially not a priority since I've never coded for any other platform, but if anyone is willing to port it I'm more than happy to collaborate.

On another note, I'm sure many of you (who play JJ2 regularly) would have joined my server at least once. Please leave some feedback as to what you think of the server's current capabilities, what can be done to improve it, and most importantly what new functions it should have that the original JJ2 is not capable of.

hey guys I just read through this thread and love the work you guys have been doing. I run a computer room at a summer camp and the kids there love to play Jazz 2. A dedicated server would make my life so much easier and being a linux geek I love the idea.

I figured I'd ask how its going since the last update was in october. Im a computer science student but don't know any c++ yet but any way I can help i'd be glad to.

I need to find my copy of the game so I can start playing and hopfully help test out the server when it is online.

It has been stagnant for a while, but hopefully I can force a public beta by the end of the month.

How about being unable to kill the server? People get free kills all the time

or HIDING the server, that would be better, and as I've already seen it being done by Forest it shouldn't be hard.

@Neo: good functions would be most of the /commands in 1.23+, since beside the unstableness that JJ2 edit is actually perfect. A dedictated server should at least have those. Also, the list of gametypes you are able to host in should be longer:
Battle
CTF
Treasure
Race (Race mode host)
Coop ('Unknown' mode host)
Race (Treasure mode host) - Could possibly show seconds to complete a lap in a chat message
InstaGib (Battle mode host) - Just battle with one health you know the game
Teambattle (old) (CTF mode host) - Killing someone scores your team a point, using CTF bases (if that actually happens in the dedictated server, since I'm sure its just a weird JJ2 bug)
Teambattle (new) (CTF mode host) - No bases, killing just scores your team a point.
TBCTF (CTF mode host) - 1 point for kills, 5 points for scores, as usual
EvilMike's TB edit thingy (CTF mode host) - 1 point for kills, every enemy dies on score
LRS (Battle mode host) - Just like in 1.23+
Enemy killing (Battle mode host) - Level ends when all enemies are killed, killing one scores you one point. Your health is frozen to 5.

Make it able to change players characters into other ones, or even into bullets.

Hmm I might update the first post to show what has been done so far and what has yet to be done. The ideas are nice, keep 'em coming!

EDIT: Neobeo, you might want to ask Cheeze, he offered help a few posts up. vv

Real life has been interfering quite a lot with the progress of this project. I'd appreciate if any programmers out there would be willing to assist.

I'm not a programmer but you could test stuff on me if you want ;p