Originally Posted by Jake

Exept that Sir Ementaler is right. Voting for closing the reputation feature.

About what? That some people are drama queens?
Snooze was a bit of a drama queen before the rep feature, I don't see how him being one after it was added proves anything.

Someone gave me a negrep for my previous post being "a bit harsh", but what do you guys want me to do? Anyone who thinks its actively ruining this forum needs to wake the hell up. The only drama coming from this feature (which let me reiterate is an e-peen meter on a furry animal game forum which only affects how much you can distribute more e-peen points) is the drama ya'll are making for yourselves. And if you're drama-prone removing the feature isn't going to magically make you less drama-prone.

A vote to get rid of the feature for reasons such as "its ruining the atmosphere" is a vote for "We're all way too immature to handle this" and to be quite honest I'd like to think we're better than that.

Originally Posted by n00b

A vote to get rid of the feature for reasons such as "its ruining the atmosphere" is a vote for "We're all way too immature to handle this" and to be quite honest I'd like to think we're better than that.

Wasn't this a game where bunnies bounce on bizzarre places? And if I remember correctly, this game is suitable for everyone. So you shouldn't be saying that we should be mature.

Originally Posted by n00b

About what? That some people are drama queens?
Snooze was a bit of a drama queen before the rep feature, I don't see how him being one after it was added proves anything.

It proves that a person can leave JCF or perhaps even the community just because of reputation. Snooze was the first such case (or at least the most noticable), probably because he's less immune to this kind of stress, but it means there can be more, and I don't want to wait and check out who will be next.

Originally Posted by n00b

Someone gave me a negrep for my previous post being "a bit harsh", but what do you guys want me to do?

Just let me ask, what's that? This sentence doesn't seem to be an arguement nor an introduction to the point of the next ones. It's complaining for getting a negrep. Why? Why do you even care? You aren't drama-prone, are you?

Originally Posted by n00b

Anyone who thinks its actively ruining this forum needs to wake the hell up. The only drama coming from this feature (which let me reiterate is an e-peen meter on a furry animal game forum which only affects how much you can distribute more e-peen points) is the drama ya'll are making for yourselves. And if you're drama-prone removing the feature isn't going to magically make you less drama-prone.

It seems that the drama-prone people you see here agree with me that they were less drama-prone before adding this feature. People with different opinions are an admin with the highest rep in the forums and a person with rep 80 which just started to complain for being "a bit harsh" negrepped. Oh well, and Newspaz which was smart enough not to take care about the whole thing.

Originally Posted by n00b

A vote to get rid of the feature for reasons such as "its ruining the atmosphere" is a vote for "We're all way too immature to handle this" and to be quite honest I'd like to think we're better than that.

I'm mature enough to see we won't handle this. Thank you for your precious opinion.

Originally Posted by Jake

Wasn't this a game where bunnies bounce on bizzarre places? And if I remember correctly, this game is suitable for everyone. So you shouldn't be saying that we should be mature.

... For real dawg?


@Sir Ementaler- Im not sure if you see the join dates here, but speaking as a member from 2004 I can say with firm confidence that the forum was much much worse in terms of flamewars, arguments, and overall immaturity in the past.
Now let me be clear, since your skull is apparently thick. Im not doing this to act like im superior because Ive been here longer. Im doing this point out that by being here longer, I've had the experience of seeing this forum in a worse state. People here called the rational discourse in WhiteBlaster's password program thread "arguing". You want to see arguing? Go through my post history, I've done some stupid (-)(-)(-)(-). What happens on this forum lately doesn't even compare.

I guess I have to explain a portion of my previous post as well. I was directly responding to the rep response, I'm not complaining because I think my oh so precious e-peen number is going down. Its happened before because I made some jokes that fell flat, and I didn't complain then. If you bothered to read my previous posts on this matter, you'd find that I think that right now the rep number is utterly useless, and the real use of the feature is the feedback delivered from it. I'll liberally disperse rep amongst posters I think are great who have low rep but thats in an effort to try and make the feature a little less goofy than it currently is. The current state its in should not be warranting these doom and gloom responses.

Shifting gears, I don't want the system to go away outright, and I don't want it removed solely because people have decided we're basically all five year olds. To be clear, I'm cool with Newspaz's reasoning for removing it and partially agree with it myself. Hell, I'd be cool with removing the rep numbers from posts. As I said before its ridiculous my rep number is so high compared to posters much better than I. Also as I've said before its just an e-peen bar. I do however find the feedback system to be useful, and I'd rather it not be removed.

Ok, I'll own up. I did the initial negrep that I think caused all this fuss, as in my (personal-and-not-as-an-admin) opinion that was not a helpful post. Possibly I was too snarky in the comment, in which case I'll try and tone down the snark. I honestly didn't expect this to result.

While I have joked about retaliation against those who negrep me, I've not actually done so as it defeats the point of reputation (unfortuantly it's hard to tell on the internet if people are joking or not). As I've said before, I find it useful as a "how's my driving" form of feedback. So feel free to negrep me into oblivion if you think my posts are really that bad. It'll add to my notoriety

I'd like to point out again the only reason why I brought it up was to point out that I thought being harsh would work as a wakeup call to being overly dramatic about the situation, a little tough love though I guess I didnt go about it the right way. I didnt bring it up because someone negged me.

Really, if everyone has such a big problem with a small number under their name that might be lower than you want but otherwise does not influence anything at all you're all more superficial than I thought but it might be a better idea to disable it.

I kind of hoped you all (you know who I mean) would be mature enough not to actually pay too much attention to this whole thing, and see it for what it is, namely a small little gimmick that might encourage some users to spend some more thought about their post. Instead some are putting on a lot of drama and whining about this thing and if this is all it leads to I'd honestly rather disable it so this retarded discussion could end.

I find this whole thing hilarious. Don't disable repping, the forum needs this. Or at least, I need this.

The reputation feature doesn't have to be taken seriously. The number doesn't mean all that much. I think that snooze, and a few others, are overreacting. Don't disable the feature yet. I think it would work alright.

I should point out that other forums have used variants of the reputation system used here, and they have not fallen into a pile of chaotic backstabbing and union Seniority-style hierarchies. People who abuse this feature, like snzspeed has, have (and will) be dealt with.

I think Sir Ementaler is seeing too much of the feature in a negative light. No one is going to use this feature for every single post he/she sees - no one has that kind of time. If you are that worried about your "Reputation", then you are worried too much about a statistic that does not apply to you in real life or you have too much time on your hands.

Originally Posted by Jake

Wasn't this a game where bunnies bounce on bizzarre places? And if I remember correctly, this game is suitable for everyone. So you shouldn't be saying that we should be mature.

I love the intelligence shown in your post, n00b. Cursing and flaming. Wow and to think I actually respected you as an "asset" to this forum. I'm sorry I've been mislead all of this time...

Originally Posted by cooba

I tend to agree with n00b and Frank. Please don't exaggerate over a single incident, you get banned only when you act like a moron (see above).

I'm not trying to take a side but wow, the attacks just continue. And quite frankly, I'm a bit nervous about neg-repping cooba, seeing as he's an admin. However, the only "negative atmosphere" I have seen was snooze's little hissy fit. I really can't take a side on this. However I do feel that negativity and fear now coming from people when they post that Sir Ementaler was referring to. The way I see it now, we should give this a little bit longer.

Honestly, I don't know what Snooze was complaining about but it really is a shame to see him go. I highly doubt it was sparked by a mere lack of reputation. But if that's the direction that this forum is headed, then unfortunately, I feel as if it might be best that it is shut down. This is just a trial run, you people. Remember that. Not a permanent change. I feel as if it should be voted on by the community, not just the administrators and I also feel that everybody's reputation should be reset to 10 again if it passes due to fairness and to stop the current whining.

Originally Posted by n00b

... For real dawg?


@Sir Ementaler- Im not sure if you see the join dates here, but speaking as a member from 2004 I can say with firm confidence that the forum was much much worse in terms of flamewars, arguments, and overall immaturity in the past.

So that makes it right? I didn't even bother reading the rest of your post...

Originally Posted by Stijn

I kind of hoped you all (you know who I mean) would be mature enough not to actually pay too much attention to this whole thing, and see it for what it is, namely a small little gimmick that might encourage some users to spend some more thought about their post. Instead some are putting on a lot of drama and whining about this thing and if this is all it leads to I'd honestly rather disable it so this retarded discussion could end.

Let's have a community vote on this matter. Though judging from the responsibility shown so far, I don't know if decisions are the best thing for this forum atm. Pathetic, I've never seen it like this.

Originally Posted by IconGuy

I find this whole thing hilarious. Don't disable repping, the forum needs this. Or at least, I need this.

AMEN. It is hilarious! And I would love to watch it rage on but I feel as if the maturity levels are low enough as it is.

All-in-all I don't even know what to say to this community anymore...

Don't rep me. Or maybe I should tell you to rep me so you won't.

I bet everyone can argue a totally different point with this!!

Where did you get those statistics from ?

I went through the thread, put everyone in a for/against/neutral list, got their reps and averaged them. It's not meant to seriously prove any point, really.

Originally Posted by Fquist

I bet everyone can argue a totally different point with this!!

What? I thought it was obvious from the very beginning. It doesn't make any side anymore right. You can say I'm biased because my rep is low but I can as well say you're biased because your rep is high.

That's exactly why I said everyone can argue a different point with this :P

EDIT: I think that there is good chance (some) people with a high reputation will think "see, people appreciate my posts, and they're right, so the system works". On the other hand, people with low reputation will think "people don't appreciate my posts, and they're wrong, so the system doesn't work".

That said, I think the system works. The people whose posts I typically enjoy seem to have a higher reputation than others.

EDIT2: People who take reputation more personally are more likely to be against it, but are also more likely to get into more personal arguments or complain about negative reputation. Both these actions generally cause more negative reputation. Selffulfilling-ish prophecy!

Sorry then, I thought this sentence is meant to mean something different.

Originally Posted by Fquist

That's exactly why I said everyone can argue a different point with this :P

EDIT: I think that there is good chance (some) people with a high reputation will think "see, people appreciate my posts, and they're right, so the system works". On the other hand, people with low reputation will think "people don't appreciate my posts, and they're wrong, so the system doesn't work".

That said, I think the system works. The people whose posts I typically enjoy seem to have a higher reputation than others.

EDIT2: People who take reputation more personally are more likely to be against it, but are also more likely to get into more personal arguments or complain about negative reputation. Both these actions generally cause more negative reputation. Selffulfilling-ish prophecy!

Kinda reminds me of an old tv show I used to watch Replace ratings with reputation.

@Newspaz, come on lighten up a bit. If only people posted this much in other threads. I haven't seen so many posts regularly in a while.

I want to be the king of neg rep.

This is just a fun little board. People take it too seriously (that's including various admins, regular users, banned users, etc).. often when I look at my posts I think to myself "whoa I don't even remember TYPING this!" and get cracked up.. and many times I probably come off as an (-)(-)(-)(-)(-)(-)(-), which I'm far from being irl. Just havin' some rough days sometimes, and takin' it off here is kinda easy, y'know?.. I don't have any negative thoughts towards anyone in the board, hope I've never truly offeneded anyone.. just some of the best laughs in my life I've had in this place, and will keep having..

Also, Snooze is one of the best posters here. I like his sense of humor.. but good people are misunderstood.

Originally Posted by Fquist

EDIT: I think that there is good chance (some) people with a high reputation will think "see, people appreciate my posts, and they're right, so the system works". On the other hand, people with low reputation will think "people don't appreciate my posts, and they're wrong, so the system doesn't work".

That said, I think the system works. The people whose posts I typically enjoy seem to have a higher reputation than others.

I actually understand only the logic of the last sentence and not really agree with it. Although, let's say the system works. My true goal isn't prooving it doesn't. I'm only noticing those "people don't appreciate my posts" guys. Everyday you can hear that the community and JJ2 are dying but you're just giving people a next reason to leave or stop the activity. You're discussing every feature you want to put to the game itself to ensure it won't kill it, and a while later you're easily adding a whole new kind of ranking to the forums.

Originally Posted by Fquist

EDIT2: People who take reputation more personally are more likely to be against it, but are also more likely to get into more personal arguments or complain about negative reputation. Both these actions generally cause more negative reputation. Selffulfilling-ish prophecy!

cooba already explained it to me few times. I still don't see any part of it which would make it an argument to keep the system.

If you stand for something, you might have people disagreeing with you. Therefore I can't see why Emp's so pissed about the rep feature.. think about it, people with a high reputation really tend to be more dull and empty. He should see it as an advantage, that many people here actually feel his posts.

But people... You're all inactive/semi-active in JJ2 (actually I mean admins are). There are too much new players who don't know for this forum. Try to get them here, so you will see what will happen. Old player(s) (I won't tell on who I mean, because he will delete that post with reason "Personal attack") hates "new" players. He hates me. I don't know why, but it doesn't matter. There are a lot of people who will negrep posts by "new" users, here. That admin who really hates "new" players will negrep this. I just know that, but I don't care. Do whatever you want. I, personally, am for disabling this feature. I have a big proof for people who've got negrepped for their posts by someone who wants a help. That happened to bogdan or something like that. That happened a lot of other people who just wanted help from the others. Here is a great example for this.

New player: Hey all, can anyone help me about... (That happened to cooldude in thread where he wanted a help from us, guys, and you negrepped his comment. He just wanted to make a program, but he didn't know that Visual C++ is a language what you need to know if you wanna make a program... don't go out of topic now )

After that, Some users negrepped his post. And why? Just because they hate him. That's why I don't like this feature.

Also, you (not all, but some of you) are acting like 'I don't care about this feature. It doesn't show anything special big.' and you added it to this forum. I really don't understand you . If someone see your reputation is 150 he will automatically like every your post. And, if someone see your reputation is small (as mine is, but I really don't care about my reputation, I care about new users who will join to this community and got negrepped, and leave this beautiful forum with no big reason), people will automatically dislike your posts, and dislike you, too.

Let's see about old players, who got negrepped sometimes and left this forum (I hope not community), now. The best example is snooze. I really am not sure did he leave, but in case he did (and if he didn't he wanted to), reputation made him leave. I think you should add "Thanks" button next to "quote", or "edit" buttons instead of reputation, so people will see how much times people pressed "thanks" button on your posts. That is some type of reputation, too, but you can't get negrepped. I don't know is it vBulletin, but I saw it on some forums. If you want see it tell me and I will show you that forum.

Now if I tell you my English isn't the best (I think I don't need to tell you, you see it) you will negrep this comment. Thanks a lot .

Now, to some extent, this makes sense -- just definitionally, you would expect people who have been around longer to have a higher (potential for) reputation. Another proposal, since people weren't fond of the idea of restricting cases for which reputation could validly be applied: positive only, no negative.

As for cooldude, whom I'm pretty sure I did not myself negrep: Asking questions is fine. We all do it. But there are better and worse ways to ask questions, a concept which goes back a long way, and cooldude did not go out of his way to make his questions easy to answer, and did not really respond to requests for further clarification, which nobody ever likes.

I am pro repping yet my rep is only 27?! Sir Ementaler's rep is 48!?!?!

WAH WAH THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS.

I demand higher rep before I continue supporting the rep feature.


On another note, I noticed that when I rep it only changes 2 points, and when I'm repped it's like 10 points. I guess this is the veteran effect acting? Or the post count? Or the rep amount? Doesn't matter, I think this is kind of lame because it keeps me out of the game ;(

I suggest tweaking it.

Originally Posted by IconGuy

On another note, I noticed that when I rep it only changes 2 points, and when I'm repped it's like 10 points. I guess this is the veteran effect acting? Or the post count? Or the rep amount? Doesn't matter, I think this is kind of lame because it keeps me out of the game ;(

All of those influence the amount of reputation you can give/take.

yeah, you mentioned only my mistakes in my post up-there, UR. What about the rest, where I was probably alright? You replied only on that example for cooldude, what I didn't literally mean. That was just an example for situation when someone needs a help from us, (I agree he didn't ask it in right way as he could do it) but when someone asks a good question, as I did in my thread on tech. help. I got negrepped there. I don't know why, and I don't want to know why. I guess that was a nice question UR. With all, images, errors etc. But whatever, that's other's ppl opinion. We can't do anything against it. After all, I really think that the best solution is removing rep. system and adding the "Thanks" button for every post, so you can't get negrepped. Only get thanks from the other users here.

Eh, after a long think about it, The rep system has helped a bit, Some posters have really changed there attitude now, and all because some pixal numbers So the reputation feature has helped. I do like toni's Idea as well, it was I think what dermo was talking about in the first place, just a thanks button. It would also let you see what post specifically got a thanks, that way there would be less drama from some people, and in the long term still have the same advantages as the rep system.

Maybe we could have a poll to this thread, and see what everyone thinks. I prefer the thanks button, or if people luv the reputation feature so much have both .

Toni: I didn't respond to most of your post because I'm not really on either side of the fence right now in the discussion; I reply to what I think warrants response or correction. If you want more feedback, I'll say that Snooze has left many times before and will doubtless continue to do so.

I don't really have an opinion about this "thanks button" but I'll say that we have the reputation feature as it is right now because that is the way the forum software implements it; there is no builtin support for a "thanks button" or another form of expressing appreciation for a post so it is unlikely that it will be enabled.

Originally Posted by Stijn

All of those influence the amount of reputation you can give/take.

Yes, Stijn, that's why I listed them.

Originally Posted by IconGuy

Yes, Stijn, that's why I listed them.

With question marks behind them. But pardon me for thinking it was a question.

Also, you (not all, but some of you) are acting like 'I don't care about this feature. It doesn't show anything special big.' and you added it to this forum. I really don't understand you . If someone see your reputation is 150 he will automatically like every your post. And, if someone see your reputation is small (as mine is, but I really don't care about my reputation, I care about new users who will join to this community and got negrepped, and leave this beautiful forum with no big reason), people will automatically dislike your posts, and dislike you, too.

Well, I do hope people are intelligent enough to judge a post by ...the post, and not by a number next to it.

I know I'm so late to this thread, but as an active Vbulletin Admin with tons of experience with the reputation system, may I recommend one thing to you:

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=165673

A simple, easy to customize mod. It adds a nice Thanks button to the bottom of posts, and you can set it to give +rep for every thank you received.

Also, if you wanna install it quickly, Stijn you have my MSN and I can tell you the phrases to edit to customize it so you could have it set up in less than 5 minutes.

I attached a photo of how we use it on Digiex.

Go on, install a mod on your otherwise plan vBulletin

Originally Posted by Nimrod

I know I'm so late to this thread, but as an active Vbulletin Admin with tons of experience with the reputation system, may I recommend one thing to you:

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=165673

A simple, easy to customize mod. It adds a nice Thanks button to the bottom of posts, and you can set it to give +rep for every thank you received.

Also, if you wanna install it quickly, Stijn you have my MSN and I can tell you the phrases to edit to customize it so you could have it set up in less than 5 minutes.

I attached a photo of how we use it on Digiex.

Go on, install a mod on your otherwise plan vBulletin

+rep, Awesome job nimrod thanks !

perhaps we should test this for a little while and have a vote to see who likes which system best ;D

Nimrod, this isn't some helping and contributing forum. At best, we get one joke thread and one serious thread simultaneously at one time. With a thank you system, nobody will hardly get any rep ever, and it will be boring.

Originally Posted by Stijn

With question marks behind them. But pardon me for thinking it was a question.

The question marks were meant to express my uncertainty about which factor has the most effect on making my reps null.

Well, I do hope people are intelligent enough to judge a post by ...the post, and not by a number next to it.

I think you might have pinpointed the problem there.

Nimrod, that was what I meant thanks for showing it to everyone

Originally Posted by IconGuy

Nimrod, this isn't some helping and contributing forum. At best, we get one joke thread and one serious thread simultaneously at one time. With a thank you system, nobody will hardly get any rep ever, and it will be boring.

You may be thinking of Miscellaneous Stuff, but I assure you that there are other forums.