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CODERS SAVE THE JJ2 PLEASE!

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Toni_

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Jan 17, 2012, 06:51 AM
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CODERS SAVE THE JJ2 PLEASE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegito
Hi all,

I wish to give you guys some information that may alter the entire jj2 competetive scene.
First, no, and I mean no game which is played at the ladder is trustworthy anymore. Every game may have someone playing with radar and it isn't traceable.

Now players may be wondering why in the world I would state such thing. First of all, I got my hands on Radar v2 today. I know exactly what is possible now. The levellist this radar version works on: Semi, JE, BBlair, BBswing, silwi, Gauntlet, Epitome, FF, WW, Distopia, super, TCS, DW and Zaitox.

I can test it out with you guys if you want, I dont care. I can give all information by just checking radar basically. I even know everybodies health.

Ah, I also dont need teamchat anymore because I know when my flagcarrier is low and I know when to shout "S" because I can see enemy flagcarrier getting 1. All automatically.

Now I cannot tell how long this has been around already, I just know from a source he's been given a couple of untraceable Radar versions already.

I'll be able to show screenshots and I will be able to give evidence of everything I am stating. You can come visit me at my house and I'll show you everything for that matter.

Either way, laddering me is probably not gonna happen now anymore and I am aware of that. But I just wish players to know what is actually possible at jj2 and what you're dealing with. I also wish to get a discussion going and for someone to finally make whatever program that detects cheating - may if even be a program everybody has to use locally. That said, that'll probably be bypassable too so I might as well not play anything competetive at all anymore.

Enjoy.
JJ.net Forums

I want to say that I have this too. This is LAME. I would like every cheater who cheated with this in a bad way to die. Well it's enough. Veg said everything. I would like now to know,
DO YOU, CODERS, WANT TO SAVE THE JJ2 COMMUNITY, AND GAME ITSELF, BY MAKING AN ANTITOOL OR IMPLEMENTING SOMETHING SIMILAR IN PLUS WHAT BLOCKS RADAR2?
It's gonna be hard work, I Know, but at least try. I want this community to live. Not to die now. I want to give this to EVERYONE WHO I BELIEVE TO AND WHO WANTS TO HELP IN CREATING THIS PROJECT.

To Nimrod (if you see this): Please find a way to block Artem connecting to the serverlist. I know that he can change his IP easy, but if there's any other solution to ban him, do it.

Screenshoots:

LINK1 by Vegito

LINK2 by Toni ~ 1920x1080

LINK3 by Toni

Album. No more pics for now.
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Jan 17, 2012, 07:02 AM
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I've tried to convince ppl to make a program working along the lines of this:

-scan jj2's memory for known cheats
-take periodic screenshots of the entire screen to hopefully catch other cheats (notably this would make use of radar and highres and unlimited ammo, the immediate threats close to impossible)
-make it harder to manipulate jj2's memory by killing processes that attempt to (not a problem for plus which works with dlls)
-send the gathered information along with timestamps to a neutral server where it can be examined if need be

Such a program would ofc only be mandatory for tournaments that write it into their rules


First Artem, then Glados have started on such projects, but afaik they haven't made much headway



(Edit: if you wonder why I haven't done this myself: I'm really fucking incompetent )
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Vegito

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Jan 17, 2012, 07:19 AM
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Screenshoots, gotta love that.
Anyway, indeed. It is about time some programmers perhaps start to work together and get gaming at jj2 friendly/fun again
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Toni_

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Jan 17, 2012, 07:22 AM
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I was thinking for something like Harmen suggested.
Quote:
We create a program that you have to install to play ladders. It will detect all other programs running on that pc at that moment. If win, the program post it automatically to the site.
But Gry's post is even better.
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Jan 17, 2012, 07:27 AM
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wKtK, mad at cheaters and n00bs who distributed this, reporting in.

Gry pretty much hit the general point there.

Quote:
not a problem for plus which works with dlls
GetMeR?
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Jan 17, 2012, 07:33 AM
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Wtf!? whats happening here!?
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Jan 17, 2012, 07:37 AM
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Would be nice if the program could include a function that makes servers only allowing players who are using it.
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Jan 17, 2012, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Wtf!? whats happening here!?
Revolution! and it has only just began...
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Jan 17, 2012, 07:41 AM
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So something i included once in JJM, hmm but i dont think i have these version somewhere left, sorry, you still need to wait for the next version when jjm will be a dll like plus is
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Old Jan 17, 2012, 07:43 AM
Toni_
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Toni_

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Jan 17, 2012, 07:46 AM
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Doublepost. But, my thread, why wouldn't I?

@Sfa: Maybe stop watching your own projects and your own ass? Help the JJ2 community by joining the existing(?) team of coders who can help in creating some anti cheating tool.

Also, if that can help you, I have a source code for Health Spy or however it's called (the part what shows your healths in-game).
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Jan 17, 2012, 07:47 AM
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Artem started a 2nd jj2 revolution,
first was jj2+ now this shizzle
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Jan 17, 2012, 07:57 AM
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Hmm sorry, that I'm not writing my projects in the main programming language c++ / php / ... So I need to do the best I can with Delphi...

Even please do not say thet I never did something for the community, just ask grytolle...

So a Health Spy is the problem O_o!? man i made once a fucking small jjm-script to read and show it...

hmm, a bad thing if something like this getting productive used...
a good but insane solution would be to block the sending of health packets from all clients to other ones and make the health state more serverbased...
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Toni_

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Jan 17, 2012, 08:01 AM
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Sfa, I am not attacking you. Your post seemed to be like you think only to make JJM alone, and nothing else. I just wanted you to make a collab anti cheating tool. I never said you never did anything for the community. I Know you did a lot for it, and thanks. But now you should do much more.

Also, since I am not a programmer, I don't know how much the source code can help to you. The point is that, if you need it, you can have it from me. That's all.

P.S. Waiting for GLaDOS to respond here, since someone told that he will show up here soon with a great idea.
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Jan 17, 2012, 08:02 AM
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Nah, radar shows a lot more than just health which you can see in the first and second post of the jj.net thread here
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Jan 17, 2012, 08:03 AM
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I would like to announce that a team currently consisting of wKtK and me are starting to plan the exact implementation for the Anticheat tool. We already have a plan in mind that should prevent players from using any Radar-like program by forcing them to run an executable alongside JJ2 that scans the memory of suspicious processes for specific patterns. These patterns will be updated from time to time. Once a pattern is found, the tool will report the find to the neutral server and terminate the cheating program.

Sufficient code and protocol obfuscation should prevent most scriptkiddies from breaking the protection. As Radar 2 (or 3, or whatever number it is at now) sports absolutely no features that haven't already been known for a long time, we're hoping that the Anticheat tool should be effective for quite a while, if it ever gets broken entirely, provided the method we have in mind works out well.

Note that legitimate programs like Get Me R will be put on some sort of whitelist, the exact implementation details about this are still in the planning stage though. If the whitelist turns out as a vulnerability, we will most likely end up adding the functionality of Get Me R into our program, with permission by and giving full credit to Shelly, of course.
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Jan 17, 2012, 08:11 AM
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God bless you! Just be fast with that. I know, you're all busy and have other projects going on etc, and I can't blame you if you're slow, but I wish you good luck and success! Thank you all for helping.
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Jan 17, 2012, 08:19 AM
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I thought about something similar white / balcklists on a server and scanning the memory but i have thousend ideas to get over my own protection...

so i need to have better ideas to protect jj2 agianst the evil ideas I have xD
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Jan 17, 2012, 08:27 AM
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Don't worry, wKtK currently has lots of free time for a few weeks, so we can do some active development during that time.
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Jan 17, 2012, 08:30 AM
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tell me when you finished something, ill try it for myself after my exams with a while / blacklist, possible i get a good idea
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Jan 17, 2012, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLaDOS View Post
Don't worry, wKtK currently has lots of free time for a few weeks, so we can do some active development during that time.
His signature doesn't say so.
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Jan 17, 2012, 08:38 AM
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[18:37:49] Ensar // ShakerNL™: Artem saved JJ2
[18:37:52] Artem: saved?
[18:37:53] Harmen: saved?
[18:37:54] Artem: u kidding?
[18:37:54] Ensar // ShakerNL™: from all those annoying ctf
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Jan 17, 2012, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Random User View Post
His signature doesn't say so.
He hasn't updated his signature for a while, starting tomorrow (I think) he will have about two weeks of free time.
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Jan 17, 2012, 08:46 AM
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I am by no means a programmer, but i have the resources to provide a seperate secure server if necessary. This server would be a Virtual Machine on my own Virtual Host, which has a dedicated 100mbit link and is protected by a corporate firewall appliance. My preferred OS to host this program on would be Linux(distribution doesnt matter to me), since its far less consuming than windows. But if you dont think you can program it for Linux and commandline/logfile only, windows is possible.
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Jan 17, 2012, 08:49 AM
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Yep, However today I'm still busy with school, so sig-updates and other irrelevant things will come later

Lets fight this radar crap
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Jan 17, 2012, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilD View Post
I am by no means a programmer, but i have the resources to provide a seperate secure server if necessary. This server would be a Virtual Machine on my own Virtual Host, which has a dedicated 100mbit link and is protected by a corporate firewall appliance. My preferred OS to host this program on would be Linux(distribution doesnt matter to me), since its far less consuming than windows. But if you dont think you can program it for Linux and commandline/logfile only, windows is possible.
Thank you for your generous offer, it will be considered. Since the server software will be written in C++ using only console and network I/O, compiling for Linux won't be a problem at all; in fact, Linux is my primary operating system for program development. I only use Windows when gaming or compiling for Win32.
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Jan 17, 2012, 09:57 AM
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Thank you EvilD. Any help is appreciated!

If you're gonna make any log or anything similar, I'd recommend to make it public so there's no person who can say that there are corrupted people! We can't prove that either way, but if you try to make it with all these new people, well, corruption wouldn't be possible at all, because there are a lot of people in that project.

To clarify, I don't want to say anyone is corrupted, but there is possibility, so let's prevent that!
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Jan 17, 2012, 10:15 AM
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I agree, such logs should be public (maybe with censored IP's or somth.)

However, some unfortunate things happened while discussing/thinking about the program.
More will be said later, probably by GLaDOS. (See jj.net if you cant wait)

May JJ2ladders survive.

sorry, and I'll see if I can do somthing.
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Jan 17, 2012, 10:30 AM
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I say that I wish to be able to view the aforementioned logs of my own computer and those of my clients as a host,.

and to extract said logs for ,submission' at my discretion.
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Jan 17, 2012, 10:39 AM
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I am sorry to let you guys down, but despite the presence of rough plans, I lack the motivation to create this project. This is caused partly by the group pressure I've been getting about this, and the fact that I'm being told to rush, which would mean I would have to neglect school and my own current work in progress game for the Anticheat project.
Sorry if this sounds egoistic or anything, but there is nothing I would get for writing the program, aside from the ability to play ladder matches again, which has no benefit for me at all with my low playing skills; and, as I know the ladder community, I doubt they would be all too thankful for the project. In particular, I am worried this would end up as the jj.net admins getting all credit for "winning the fight" against cheating by making everyone use the program and me just getting pwned on JJ2 as usual.
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Jan 17, 2012, 10:55 AM
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Now, I'm not someone who has ever visited the "Online Play" forums, or for that matter even play online. But I do have a lot of experience in anti-cheat mechanisms (I've been bypassing various versions of nProtect since it first came out), and this thread actually piqued my interest somehow.

From my experience, having to run a separate anti-cheat tool can get annoying pretty fast, and doesn't particularly add very much security. As with NeoAC, I would theoretically be interested in a serverside solution as far as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sfaizst View Post
a good but insane solution would be to block the sending of health packets from all clients to other ones and make the health state more serverbased...
Why would this be insane? This was really the first thing that came to mind.
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Jan 17, 2012, 11:05 AM
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As long as there is someone who wish/can to help, this isn't a real let down, GLaDOS. I understand you. At least you wanted to do it. Pressure is never good!

Neobeo, I am glad to see you respond to this thread. Screw banning Artem, because Gry has the point. He could use MSN/anything else to spread his cheats if he gets banned. Well, nothing can stop him except... well you all know what. You should be in contact with the other coders who are willing to help, if you need help. You will probably not make any deals and conversations here.
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I can understand why this is srs bznz, but remember that cheating has been a problem for ages in online JJ2, and there's no reason this specific time it would cause the community to "die", so there's no need to be quite so panicked, JaRU.

Still, thanks for posting about the issue here.
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Jan 17, 2012, 11:35 AM
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He means the jj.net ladder-based community, which kinda is in danger without the anti-cheat because people do not know whether their opponent is using radar.
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Jan 17, 2012, 12:33 PM
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I actually mean the entire JJ2 community scene, but mainly, yes, JJ.net ladder is kinda ruined with this shi-. I don't panic, maybe I look like that, but I just want this to be over - means on cheating with radar -.
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Jan 17, 2012, 12:42 PM
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I do want to create a program to run that checks for hacks..
but I am not sure if anyone else is doing it already .
and even IF I make it and it works fine people will not trust me enough and think it is more spyware.
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Jan 17, 2012, 01:04 PM
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So lets have radar only ladders xd. Well, I'll give up competetive JJ2 for now anyway. No point playing when everybody can use radar and turn 2D shooter into an RPG. I can't trust everyone either you know.
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Jan 17, 2012, 01:43 PM
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That's quite strange actually that anyone is cheating in game like JJ2, there is no point in it lol. I'd understand that(but still blame it) if there was any reward for winning it, but like that? Seems like the most trusted competition now can only be level making, hard to cheat in that one.

What's the point anyway, people want everyone to see them as some kind of pwners maybe, but that makes no sense at all. Good job whoever did that, you have just destroyed fun of playing this game. What's the point of getting feel better at some internet bunny game, lol.

... Still I sometimes like to play CTF, so I guess I will play, just not maps that are included in that Radar thing. How long is it around jj2 anyway?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neobeo View Post
From my experience, having to run a separate anti-cheat tool can get annoying pretty fast, and doesn't particularly add very much security. As with NeoAC, I would theoretically be interested in a serverside solution as far as possible.
What server side solution could theoretically stop you from reading player positions and plot them out on a .png?

I'm with you on the principle, I just don't think it'll do the trick in this instance.
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Jan 17, 2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grytolle View Post
What server side solution could theoretically stop you from reading player positions and plot them out on a .png?

I'm with you on the principle, I just don't think it'll do the trick in this instance.
A quick example is that a client only receives the positions of players that are within his screen. (assume 640x480, say)
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