very clear! thank you.

Another day for claiming a page. ;.;

Not that there is any chance, but my pal Seph told me he wants to play in this. Bad for him that people signed up so quickly he didn't even notice the signups had begun =D

When first matches? It what for JDCE? Results are recorded there?

No, JDCE is something different. Results will be recored at jj2wc.ncmv.net

OKay... I guess the whole idea of RESERVING A SPOT was too complex for you guys. ><

Sweet, Thanks. :oP



Have fun kids.

-Bder

Well, we can't reserve the last availabel spot for someone who isn't even sure he can play. Maybe if you asked earlier... however, if one of the players decides to not play at all, you're welcome

The drawings for this year's edition of the Duellist Cup can be found at our website, more especially at http://jj2wc.ncmv.net/tournament.html. More information can be found at the website.

Originally Posted by FireSworD

Oh, and a small suggestion: make sure the not so skilled players get a chance; last years matchups were just sad.

In other words, have fun playing, Boarder.

Snooze vs. Enig? o.O

Edit: Final Scheme = Champion's Bracket

On a site note, I also think you should add duels for the 5th and 7th place, since there are 32 players.

Originally Posted by Cooba

In other words, have fun playing, Boarder.

Does that means I'm first matched with Bder? =OOOOOOOO

FS vs Quickz, Elf vs Squirrel...maybe I am unfairly judging some people's skills here, but just look for yourselves. I'd say Rag vs Gry and GP vs Chiyu are the fairest duels in the tournament so far.

Maybe Snooze vs Enigma as well.
Hm... *minds control Snooze to drink beer before duel*

There shouldn't be fair duels at the first stage (-).

Now, instead of the most skilled player, the most lucky guy (the one who got the weakest opponents) would win. Good job ruining the whole JJ2WC 1v1 concept (which should be based on skill only), Chip.

Now I'm just confused. I think you meant "Have fun SITTING OUT, Boarder".

But I just don't know anymore. :o[[

*Runs off to play Counter-strike Source ... with Spoy ... And Samalander*

-Bder

Originally Posted by BoArDeR

Now I'm just confused. I think you meant "Have fun SITTING OUT, Boarder".

But I just don't know anymore. [[

*Runs off to play Counter-strike Source ... with Spoy ... And Samalander*

-Bder

Cooba wants you to take his place Boardu ;P

If anyone else wants to drop out: Blacky wants to play. ;P

EDIT: Or if Boarder still can't play, replace Cooba with Blacky.

Originally Posted by R3p

There shouldn't be fair duels at the first stage (-).

Now, instead of the most skilled player, the most lucky guy (the one who got the weakest opponents) would win. Good job ruining the whole JJ2WC 1v1 concept (which should be based on skill only), Chip.

I believe I don't see your point. The player with the weakest opponent wins? Look - I don't know what system they use at your place, but normally placed in a Double Elimination tournament are made random-wise. Everything here is random, except for the top 4 players of last year.
I don't think there's a good solution for this problem you state. There are some alternative ways:
1) Seperate all good players from the bad players. In this scenario, duels are fairest (good guys vs. good guys & bad guys vs. bad guys) but in this way, half of the good players drop out during the first round, while players with much less skill proceed. Is this fair? Not at all. People will complain like hell. It might be a tournament which is worth watching, but the skilled players will hate it.
2) Every duel has a good player and a bad player. This is pretty unfair, since the bad players don't stand a chance against the good and so all good players will move on to the next round. In that case, all good player stay in the game (which is good for the later rounds) but new player don't stand a chance. Unfair.

So, the best solution to the problem would be a mixed selection, featuring some duels which are good vs. good, some are bad vs. bad, and others are good vs. bad. I could put all in the players on fixed spots (not randomly decided) but then participants will call me biased and lots of flaming will be my part. So, the only solution which is left is the randomly decided matchups, which I used for this tournament.
I don't see your point at all and telling me "I ruined the JJ2WC Duellist concept" without even giving any arguments is just stupid. If you have a better solution, feel free to tell it, but I've had several positive reactions about the matchups already, so I'm not in the mood for a redraw.

Originally Posted by FireSworD

If anyone else wants to drop out: Blacky wants to play. ;P

EDIT: Or if Boarder still can't play, replace Cooba with Blacky.

ahah. please don't do that ;(

Originally Posted by SkulL

Does that means I'm first matched with Bder? =OOOOOOOO

Big chance that you face me in the second round

Im watching this topic closely =P

Originally Posted by R3p

There shouldn't be fair duels at the first stage.

Apparently there aren't.

Originally Posted by ChippieBW

This is pretty unfair, since the bad players don't stand a chance against the good and so all good players will move on to the next round. In that case, all good player stay in the game (which is good for the later rounds) but new player don't stand a chance. Unfair.

(-) this is just ridicolous. This tourney has always been based on skill only. After all, we want to find out who are the current best duelists and bring JJ2 to it's highest competition level, and that's also the reason I started this tourney from the beggining. We don't give a (-) about "bad players" - if someone is bad, he should be knocked quickly. That's how this tourney always has worked, and you ruined it all now.

Next time don't be lazy and make seedings.

And by the way, lesser skilled players could always try JDC instead.

Originally Posted by R3p

That's how this tourney always has worked

And if you bothered to look at the drawings you would notice that it still works like that.

Bleh.

Nope, not really. Skull won't be able to face FS, Cell, Enig\Snooze and me at the winner bracket, for example.

And that match between Enig and Snooze at the first round is just a JOKE.

So, as I mentioned, next time don't ignore my suggestions and make seedings. I know we're all human, and we should learn from our mistakes.

"Has always been based on skill"? It has only had one edition so far.

Besides, I don't see any spots in the draw where newer players can charge right into the final stages, let alone win the tournament, without running into several of the more experienced players. And the number of matchups of good (subjective term btw) players against each other in the first round is fairly limited; and given the large number of skilled players in the tournament, it was inevitable that we'd get some crazy first round matchups.

Originally Posted by Enigma

It has only had one edition so far.

*Two. And if you also count JJ2L, the (failed) tourney that AvK and I were organizing two or three years ago (many skilled players such as Bob, Unhit, Thunder, Sal and others participated and yet you probably haven't heard of it, since it stopped after the groups stage), it makes three.

I do give a crap about the lesser skilled players.
Though I know you've been always a 'mind-changer', r3p.

EDIT: Oh, and also if this was meant only for professional players, an idea of 32 players in it would be almost only a waste of time because there sure ain't that much of good active players in THIS community, and more players=more fun.

Now go make sense.


And yes, I'm a mind changer. I can change your minds whenever I want to. Bwahahahaha!

Originally Posted by R3p

Nope, not really. Skull won't be able to face FS, Cell, Enig\Snooze and me at the winner bracket, for example.

This is just a pure lie. SkulL can face both you and FS during the finals, and Snooze during the semifinals. Theoretically, it is possible for ANY player to face another player during the tournament.

Originally Posted by R3p

And that match between Enig and Snooze at the first round is just a JOKE.

Hahaha.
Now serious, of course not every match is good for the first round, but as Enigma said, something like that is inevitable. If it wasn't Snooze vs. Enig, it would be another match.

Originally Posted by R3p

So, as I mentioned, next time don't ignore my suggestions and make seedings. I know we're all human, and we should learn from our mistakes.

In your opinion, a JJ2WC tournament should eliminate all new players immediatly. If I'd follow that scenario, it would receive much controverse. New players should get a chance as well.

OK, everyone who still got complaints now can stop whining, the tournament setup remains as it is now.

Originally Posted by ChippieBW

SkulL can face both you and FS during the finals

Only during the WB final.

Either Snooze or Enig will be eliminated from the WB bracket right after the first round, which is unfair.

Originally Posted by ChippieBW

Now serious, of course not every match is good for the first round, but as Enigma said, something like that is inevitable. If it wasn't Snooze vs. Enig, it would be another match.

Not if there were seedings.

Originally Posted by ChippieBW

In your opinion, a JJ2WC tournament should eliminate all new players immediatly.

It's not only my opinion, it's also how it's Always been.

Originally Posted by ChippieBW

New players should get a chance as well.

They got enough chance at practice duels, JDC and JJ2WC, where they could also prove themselves as good players, then get a higher seeding at JJ2WC 1v1.

Edit: Of course it remains as it is now, as it is already too late to do such drastic changes.

Either Snooze or Enig will be eliminated from the WB bracket right after the first round, which is unfair.

-_-

wat

Edit: Wait, I'm getting it. You probably don't see my points, and that's why you always think I change my mind while I don't.

I don't indeed get the point of what's different if either of Snooze/Enig doesn't manage between into the next round than with anyone else.

Huh? What I was trying to say is that it's unfair that two of the best players already face each other in the first round.

I'm more closer to agreeing with R3p on this. I think this should be based on skill rather than luck of the draw. Good luck to everyone, though.

Yeah, it's unfair that I have to face Rep.He will crash me easily. ;((((((((((((((((((

You can complain about it.
But then again, its useless already.
discissions has been made. now you just have to accept it.
And I think Snooze Vs. Enig will be a close match =P

Hmm I won't complain

EDIT: people will so laugh at me when I get knocked out in the 1st stage already))))

Here's my stance:

I somewhat agree with R3ptile, but I don't like the way he presented his argument. Chippie mentioned that it isn't fair for newer players to lose in the first round, but wouldn't that mean the more skilled players don't deserve to win and move on in the tournament? As already mentioned, tournaments are meant to find out who is the best, and therefore should focus on the better players. That's the basic reason why most tournaments use seeding whenever possible.

R3ptile mentioned that the JJ2WC dueling tournament being based on skill was "how it's Always been," but that tournament hasn't been around for that long. A better basis for such an argument is the playoff system used in certain sports. Playoffs are used for the same reasons I mentioned above.

The one thing that wasn't mentioned in its entirety is how seeding would be done. If this was to be done, it would probably be in everyone's best interest to seed everyone. Unfortunately, there isn't any completely fair method from which to derive such seeds. JDC has varying activity from season to season (with scores highly correlated to activity) and the JJ2WC tournaments do not account for everyone. Even if the seeding could somehow be done fairly, some people would still complain. So proper seeding could possibly be a waste of time.

And since this is a double elimination tournament, it doesn't matter quite as much where all the players are positioned in the first round. Good players who get knocked out of the winner's bracket have a decent chance of winning the loser's bracket and possibly the entire tournament. I can't say random seeding is the best solution, but it's better than trying in vain to judge how good players are from limited sources.

lol and you think we're bored enough to read all of this?

Originally Posted by R3p

lol and you think we're bored enough to read all of this?

And that comes from someone who wrote this post.

hmm just because some1 actually comes up with some proper argumentation and a sentence longer than 3 words that doesn't mean we have to linch him rep. It actually enriches the discussion and can lead to better solutions on the end, and thats what we all want.