Jazz Jackrabbit is better than JJ2 because:

EDIT: This is my personal opinion.

1. There are way more single player levels!
2. The single player levels are more fun in general (e.g. the water / purple slime levels in JJ1 rock, or the tubeelectric levels).
3. The music is better.
4. There are 3D bonus levels.
5. There are more secret levels.
6. It's not so tremendously buggy as JJ2 is (e.g. many clipping errors in JJ2, you can bomb Devan out of the level by placing TNT etc.).
7. There is an animation at the end of EVERY episode (not only the last one) and a "story text".
8. There are those cool bonus items which make you extremely fast for a certain ammount of time.
9. There are invincibility bonus items and shields. These are better than those random Sugar Rushs in JJ2. EDIT: I forgot that there are shields in JJ2.
10. There is a comic strip in the manual. EDIT: It looks like only my manual doesn't have one.
11. JJ1 is a dos game and therefore playable on almost any platform thanks to dos emulators like dosbox.
12. There is a little "introduction" to each planet by a small picture of each planet. EDIT: I rather should've written "world (new tileset)" instead of "planet"


Disadvantages of JJ1:
1. No multiplayer mode.
2. Only one playable character (although there is the advantage that you can reach every location in a level which should be reachable).

The fact that there are more weapons in JJ2 isn't an advantage, in my opinion. Furthermore, the special moves of each character are nice but one can live without them. EDIT: In contrast to what I wrote here I realized that the special moves in JJ2 are pretty cool.


I'm looking forward to reading your comments about this post.

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

1. There are way more single player levels!

Quality>Quantity. If you said "There are way more GOOD single player levels!" then, ok. Otherwise, who cares if you have a 117 level pack if all of the levels are crap?

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

2. The single player levels are more fun in general (e.g. the water / purple slime levels in JJ1 rock, or the tubeelectric levels).

This is highly opinonated. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it's of quality. For example, it's fun to slam the bongoes in Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, but that game is complete crap otherwise.

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

3. The music is better.

This is more of an opinionated than all of the other points, I wouldn't have even bothered to list it.

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

6. It's not so tremendously buggy as JJ2 is (e.g. many clipping errors in JJ2, you can bomb Devan out of the level by placing TNT etc.).

There are many more bugs you could have listed than a minor Devan bug and "Many clipping errors" which I don't even know how that applies, since I'm pretty sure clipping is a term only used for 3d games.

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

9. There are invincibility bonus items and shields. These are better than those random Sugar Rushs in JJ2.

There are sheilds in JJ2 as well, and these even give you stronger firepower

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

10. There is a comic strip in the manual.

Theres one for JJ2 as well.

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

11. JJ1 is a dos game and therefore playable on almost any platform thanks to dos emulators like dosbox.

And yet, you have crappy audio quality, so you're not getting the full experience. Plus I could play JJ2 on Linux with Wine which then means I could potentially play it on a PS3 or Xbox (Haven't fully looked into it).

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

12. There is a little "introduction" to each planet by a small picture of each planet.

You're not planet hopping in JJ2. I don't see how this applies. Hell, you're on the same planet for all of episode 1.

So all in all, a little "why I think" added to the topic and first sentence could go along way.
Very few of these are actual facts and a few are just plain false.

And really, you could live without the special moves? Ok, try playing the SP campaign in JJ2 without buttstomping or using a move to jump higher. See how far you get.

I also don't get why more weapons isn't an advantage to you, while you list trivial things such as "OMG THEREZ NO COMICK!!!" as an advantage. What you don't want updates to the gameplay? All you want are just flashy pictures?

Of course the reasons I wrote are stating my personal opinion. I thought that was obvious.

Originally Posted by n00b

Quality>Quantity. If you said "There are way more GOOD single player levels!" then, ok. Otherwise, who cares if you have a 117 level pack if all of the levels are crap?

This is highly opinonated. Just because something is fun doesn't mean it's of quality. For example, it's fun to slam the bongoes in Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, but that game is complete crap otherwise.

I said that the levels are better in general and if there are more levels => more good levels. The examples I wrote were meant as examples not as a proof.

Originally Posted by n00b

There are many more bugs you could have listed than a minor Devan bug and "Many clipping errors" which I don't even know how that applies, since I'm pretty sure clipping is a term only used for 3d games.

Of course there are many more bugs, I just named two bugs that first popped into my mind. Clipping errors are errors which make you move through places in the map which shouldn't be passable. Having played all single player levels of JJ2, I often fell into positions of the map where I couldn't get out anymore and had to reload a save game.

Originally Posted by n00b

Theres one for JJ2 as well.

Okay, then it's only my manual which doesn't have one.

Originally Posted by n00b

And yet, you have crappy audio quality, so you're not getting the full experience. Plus I could play JJ2 on Linux with Wine which then means I could potentially play it on a PS3 or Xbox (Haven't fully looked into it).

I don't think the audio quality is crappy. Wine often can't emulate games properly. In general the dos emulators are much better than the windows emulators.

Originally Posted by n00b

And really, you could live without the special moves? Ok, try playing the SP campaign in JJ2 without buttstomping or using a move to jump higher. See how far you get.

Of course this meant if levels were designed with the fact in the mind that there are no special moves. Then these levels wouldn't become any worse, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by n00b

I also don't get why more weapons isn't an advantage to you, while you list trivial things such as "OMG THEREZ NO COMICK!!!" as an advantage. What you don't want updates to the gameplay? All you want are just flashy pictures?

I'm used to using mainly the blaster, so I don't really care about additional weapons. They don't add to the gameplay in my opinion. About the pictures (at the end of episodes and at the beginning of new "worlds", in JJ1 planets): They make JJ1 not look like a rush job like JJ2 does.

Originally Posted by n00b

There are sheilds in JJ2 as well, and these even give you stronger firepower

You're right. I forgot about these.

For those who do not want to read, here's the post in a sarcastic nutshell:
Lists about JJ1 are serious business!!

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

Of course the reasons I wrote are stating my personal opinion. I thought that was obvious.

It is, but it makes it look far more pompous or like you're trying to sell me JJ1 when it looks like you merely say "It's better because" without the "I think". Also, such things as music are not really debatable as such debates will always end in stalemate, and if that was the intention of the list, they should not have been included.

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

I said that the levels are better in general and if there are more levels => more good levels. The examples I wrote were meant as examples not as a proof.

No. You said "The single player levels are more fun in general", and like I said, fun does not always amount to quality. I find fun in watching movies that are so bad they're "good" but in the end, the movies are still crap.
By listing 1 separate from 2 (and before it no less), it still looks as if you're taking a quantitative look.

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

Of course there are many more bugs, I just named two bugs that first popped into my mind. Clipping errors are errors which make you move through places in the map which shouldn't be passable. Having played all single player levels of JJ2, I often fell into positions of the map where I couldn't get out anymore and had to reload a save game.

It'd be best to name two bugs that majorly affect gameplay not any random one that pops into your head.
I think you mean the masking, not clipping. Once again, I'm sure clipping is a term reserved for 3d games.

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

Okay, then it's only my manual which doesn't have one.

Even if it didn't, you could still find scans of it online.

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

I don't think the audio quality is crappy. Wine often can't emulate games properly. In general the dos emulators are much better than the windows emulators.

Depends on the emulator I guess, but when I run JJ1 in dosbox the audio takes a serious hit and lags terribly.

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

Of course this meant if levels were designed with the fact in the mind that there are no special moves. Then these levels wouldn't become any worse, in my opinion.

Many levels require the special moves to acquire secrets and the like, and have since become quite intergrated in the JJ2 level making experience. Remember if we're going to take JJ2 into account we must take into account all of the user levels as well.

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

I'm used to using mainly the blaster, so I don't really care about additional weapons. They don't add to the gameplay in my opinion.

In this case, adding to the gameplay is not an opinion. It's rather a choice of whether or not you want to take advantage of what they add to the gameplay.

Different ammo types do add to the gameplay, especially in multiplayer. This is not like if Jazz had a honk command that did nothing whatsoever. That is a case of whether used or not, honking adds nothing.

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

About the pictures (at the end of episodes and at the beginning of new "worlds", in JJ1 planets): They make JJ1 not look like a rush job like JJ2 does.

I did not mean that when I said pictures. The comic does not fall into the same file as cutscenes, they fall into the same file as renders or concept art placed in manuals, strategy guides, advertisements, or box art.

Why do I get this feeling that if the thread was about how JJ2 is better than JJ1, Noob would still be arguing against it?

It depends on if I needed to waste 5 minutes or not.

I find you mentioning things like JJ2 having a lot more features "but one can live without them" rather weak, especially when special moves are rather quite significant in jj2 and virtually all the levels made and played nowadays take them into consideration. The features actually are useful, whether you think so or not, and disregarding them for no reason doesn't make much sense. By your arguements. you could say that JJ2 has much better graphics, music, and more advanced gameplay then pacman, but one could live without all those factors so all of that doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Radium

Why do I get this feeling that if the thread was about how JJ2 is better than JJ1, Noob would still be arguing against it?

He's not arguing against the thread so much as the individual points. You can agree with a conclusion and yet consider the premeses wrong or irrelevant.

Okay, let's put it this way.

JJ1 was a good game.
JJ2 took almost everything that was good about JJ1 out and added multiplayer and Spaz.

Originally Posted by n00b

Even if it didn't, you could still find scans of it online.

Do you know where I can get scans of that comic strip?

Originally Posted by n00b

Depends on the emulator I guess, but when I run JJ1 in dosbox the audio takes a serious hit and lags terribly.

You have to increase the "Cpu Cycles" of dosbox to value of about 8000-10000 and it'll probably work fine (at least it does with my system). You can do this by pressing ctrl + f12. Don't increase the value too much or the quality will become worse again.


@all: Okay, guys, you persuaded me. The special moves in JJ2 are pretty cool. However, I still think that many weapons of JJ2 are useless in single player mode. Of course, this could be different in multiplayer mode.

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

I still think that many weapons of JJ2 are useless in single player mode.

And I think you're right.

I've found that I tend to do the entire single player campaign with the blaster, except for a few places where you either need a different weapon (destruct scenery) or it comes in handy (some bosses). Though the flamethrower does rule once you get a silly rate of fire.

Disadvantage 3. The visible area is much smaller.

Originally Posted by Torkell

I've found that I tend to do the entire single player campaign with the blaster, except for a few places where you either need a different weapon (destruct scenery) or it comes in handy (some bosses). Though the flamethrower does rule once you get a silly rate of fire.

It's pretty easy to complete the whole game even on hard mode without using weapons at ALL except on the queen and destructible blocks, if you're allowed to shoot Devan once. That makes 1 non necessary bullet used. So in fact.. weapons are useless (honk honk).

Originally Posted by Red Wraith

I don't think the audio quality is crappy. Wine often can't emulate games properly. In general the dos emulators are much better than the windows emulators.

If you knew what WINE stands for and how it works you'd understand how wrong and unvalidated this is. How is that even a fair comparison?

Conclusion:
Both games have their good and bad points, it's just not the same game..

I think jazz 1 was much better for it's time, by then it was a very underrated game. At some points jazz 1 even has more graphical detail than jazz 2 in my opinion..

But still I like Jazz 2 better, because the game has just more options (I don't care if some of the weapons are useless)

They're both bad. Play World of Warcraft.

Play JJGBA!!!1!111

Originally Posted by DoubleGJ

Play JJGBA!!!1!111

I'm going to make a thread!!111!!!!111!!! Called ''Why Jazz Jackrabbit for the GBA is better then Jazz1 and Jazz2 combined''. Just to let you all know, Jazz Jackrabbit for the GBA isn't called Jazz jackrabbit advance but Jazz jackrabbit. Fools!!11!!!11.

Sacrush, it has GBA in it's abbreviation to differentiate it from other jazz jackrabbit media.

Originally Posted by Murderbeam

Sacrush, it has GBA in it's abbreviation to differentiate it from other jazz jackrabbit media.

Well, I wasn't really serious in that post. Didn't you noticed that?

Originally Posted by Jackle

If you knew what WINE stands for and how it works you'd understand how wrong and unvalidated this is. How is that even a fair comparison?

When I said that dos emulators are better than windows emulators in general, I meant that the dos emulators WORK better than windows emulators. I've tested both WINE and dosbox. Almost every dos game works fine in dosbox but many windows games don't work in Wine. This fact is actually obvious because windows (with directx etc.) is much harder to emulate than dos.

WINE means "Wine is not an emulator". Maybe the word "emulate" has a specific meaning which is not true for WINE but at least WINE simulates a system. A program started under WINE doesn't "know" it's actually running on a non-windows system. That's what I call a simulation, although personally I don't differ between simulation and emulation.

Isn't Wine a compatability layer?

Originally Posted by Red Person

When I said that dos emulators are better than windows emulators in general, I meant that the dos emulators WORK better than windows emulators. I've tested both WINE and dosbox. Almost every dos game works fine in dosbox but many windows games don't work in Wine. This fact is actually obvious because windows (with directx etc.) is much harder to emulate than dos.

WINE means "Wine is not an emulator". Maybe the word "emulate" has a specific meaning which is not true for WINE but at least WINE simulates a system. A program started under WINE doesn't "know" it's actually running on a non-windows system. That's what I call a simulation, although personally I don't differ between simulation and emulation.

Wine doesn't simulate anything. It merely acts as a translator of sorts so that Windows applications can run under Linux, by providing the functions they would expect under Windows. It doesn't emulate anything from a technical standpoint, and your definition of simulation is obscure, at best.

Emulators capable of running DOS, however, are actually emulating the processor the system would run on. Therefore, there is no actual difference between emulating Windows and DOS, as they both run under the same processor archetecture. The reason DOSBox would run much better for most people is simply because of how few system resources a functional DOS system requires.

And to further debunk point 11, from an end-user's standpoint, DOSBox is also somewhat complicated to operate, and the documentation on their website can be confusing to novices. Wine, on the other hand, has ample "hold-your-hand" documentation, as well as support from many distributions, including being installed by default on many desktop-based distributions. Plus, with there already being a native Mac version of JJ2, that would make it the most available to users, making point 11 moot.

Originally Posted by MoonBlazE

They're both bad. Play World of Warcraft.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

*gasp*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA.

Originally Posted by Red_Wraith

Jazz Jackrabbit is better than JJ2 because:

Originally Posted by ThunderPX

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

*gasp*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA.

Valid point.

Strato for president

Originally Posted by MoonBlazE

They're both bad. Play World of Warcraft.

JJ2 is CTF-bugged, WoW is evade-bugged. Take your pick.

I've been playing JJ1 (downloaded the shareware and 2 holiday hare ones back in 96) since 96 and been playing JJ2 since summer 2002 (kinda a newb in that case). and yes I like JJ1 better



I know that a level editor was released two years ago for JJ1. Any levels been made yet?

http://www.jazz2online.com/J2Ov2/downloads/browse.php
For "View" choose "JJ1 Levels"

~Online Play

~Better JCS

~A community of hard-working players trying to make the game better.

~JJ1 is a dos game which won't run past winME unless u have a bootdisk and an FAT32 partioned harddrive

~JJ1 is abandonware (I think...)

~JJ1 featured 11 character, few secrets, few sprites, and little room for eyecandy

~You're a dumb@$$ for even posting this thread

~JJ1 requires less memory but more allocation blocks

~JJ1's harder to memory edit (why you'd even want to I don't know)

~It's an old Dos Game abandoned and hardly played anymore

~It's an old Dos Game abandoned and hardly played anymore

~It's an old Dos Game abandoned and hardly played anymore

So newer always equals better in your case eh?


I still say JJ1 is more fun compared to JJ2 when talking about the default sp levels. However, JJ2 has some user levels that are more fun then JJ1's default sp levels.

I think that, taking single player only into account (as JJ1 has no multiplayer, so there's no fair comparison there), Jazz 1 is better.

First, Jazz 1 is harder. Jazz doesn't have as many fancy techniques in the first game and there's also a time limit breathing down your neck. The monsters are also more aggressive in JJ1; a good portion of JJ2's enemies just walk back and forth and only a few are actually likely to hit you.

Off the top of my head, the only enemies in JJ2 I can think of that actually are somewhat of a challenge to avoid are the Bees, Beeboys, Dragon Flies, and possibly the Fencers. Also, if I may use empirical evidence, I can breeze through JJ2's hard mode in one life. Yet I still die sometimes in JJ1's NORMAL mode.

Second, Jazz 1's levels have more variety to them. For one, the enemies are a lot more varied in Jazz 1. I don't think there's a single monster aside from the Turtlettes that is in one or more planets; just a few palette swaps here and there.

Conversely, in JJ2, there's a handful of monsters that appear just about everywhere (Lizards, Norm. Turtles, etc.) and one or two new monsters per tileset.

Aside from monsters, JJ1's levels also have more unique "gimmicks" than JJ2's. By gimmicks, I mean level features that aren't standard tiles, enemies, or basic events you can find in just about any level (springs, ammo...). What is there in JJ2? There's water (Marinated Rabbit), trigger crates (which may not count as they're basically everywhere), sucker tubes, rotating platforms, and...anything else?

However, there are a lot more unique gimmicks in the JJ1 levels to vary the gameplay. For example, JJ1's Nippius levels have Jazz slipping and sliding on the ice. Or the Lagunicus levels, where the lighting varies depending on how deep you are in the water. Or Dreempipes, where you have to pull switches to alter the water level. Or Orbitus, with its antigravity walls.

Even Pezrock had platforms that move horizontally. JJ2 didn't even have those. They're a platform gaming staple and yet JJ2 didn't even include something that simple. You get the idea.

The 3D bonus stages in JJ1 are also to its credit. JJ2 has nothing really like them.

Finally, JJ1 is longer. It's just got more of almost everything: more levels, more secret levels, more tilesets, more bosses. JJ1 just feels like a more complete game to me.

both jazz games are as (-) near perfection as you can get, though they both have their flaws, JJR2 should have had more levels and that but thats what the JCS/multiplayer modes are for, they balance it out, also it helps if you have TSF

Originally Posted by Iam Canadian

I think that, taking single player only into account (as JJ1 has no multiplayer, so there's no fair comparison there), Jazz 1 is better.

First, Jazz 1 is harder. Jazz doesn't have as many fancy techniques in the first game and there's also a time limit breathing down your neck. The monsters are also more aggressive in JJ1; a good portion of JJ2's enemies just walk back and forth and only a few are actually likely to hit you.

Off the top of my head, the only enemies in JJ2 I can think of that actually are somewhat of a challenge to avoid are the Bees, Beeboys, Dragon Flies, and possibly the Fencers. Also, if I may use empirical evidence, I can breeze through JJ2's hard mode in one life. Yet I still die sometimes in JJ1's NORMAL mode.

Second, Jazz 1's levels have more variety to them. For one, the enemies are a lot more varied in Jazz 1. I don't think there's a single monster aside from the Turtlettes that is in one or more planets; just a few palette swaps here and there.

Conversely, in JJ2, there's a handful of monsters that appear just about everywhere (Lizards, Norm. Turtles, etc.) and one or two new monsters per tileset.

Aside from monsters, JJ1's levels also have more unique "gimmicks" than JJ2's. By gimmicks, I mean level features that aren't standard tiles, enemies, or basic events you can find in just about any level (springs, ammo...). What is there in JJ2? There's water (Marinated Rabbit), trigger crates (which may not count as they're basically everywhere), sucker tubes, rotating platforms, and...anything else?

However, there are a lot more unique gimmicks in the JJ1 levels to vary the gameplay. For example, JJ1's Nippius levels have Jazz slipping and sliding on the ice. Or the Lagunicus levels, where the lighting varies depending on how deep you are in the water. Or Dreempipes, where you have to pull switches to alter the water level. Or Orbitus, with its antigravity walls.

Even Pezrock had platforms that move horizontally. JJ2 didn't even have those. They're a platform gaming staple and yet JJ2 didn't even include something that simple. You get the idea.

The 3D bonus stages in JJ1 are also to its credit. JJ2 has nothing really like them.

Finally, JJ1 is longer. It's just got more of almost everything: more levels, more secret levels, more tilesets, more bosses. JJ1 just feels like a more complete game to me.

more accurately, you should say the jj1 single player campaign is better then the jj2 single player campaign, as levelmakers long surpassed the standards the original jj2 SP campaign set and made their own, far better packs.

however, i agree with a few of those points which would be valid in any case (namely, platforms moving back and forth, although this is possible and not too hard to make in jj2, as well as 3D bonus stages)

Originally Posted by Drmoo

~Online Play

~Better JCS

~A community of hard-working players trying to make the game better.

~JJ1 is a dos game which won't run past winME unless u have a bootdisk and an FAT32 partioned harddrive

~JJ1 is abandonware (I think...)

~JJ1 featured 11 character, few secrets, few sprites, and little room for eyecandy

~You're a dumb@$$ for even posting this thread

~JJ1 requires less memory but more allocation blocks

~JJ1's harder to memory edit (why you'd even want to I don't know)

~It's an old Dos Game abandoned and hardly played anymore

~It's an old Dos Game abandoned and hardly played anymore

~It's an old Dos Game abandoned and hardly played anymore

Okay, let's do this point-by-point.

~Online Play

Okay, granted.

~Better JCS

JJ1 didn't have a JCS at all, unless you count JCS 94, which then defeats your next point:

~A community of hard-working players trying to make the game better.

JCS 94 was made by fans entirely. Also, there's OpenJazz.

~JJ1 is a dos game which won't run past winME unless u have a bootdisk and an FAT32 partioned harddrive

Um... no? Okay, so it doesn't normally run past WinME, but that's what DosBOX is for. Also, the FAT32 bit is nonsense.

~JJ1 is abandonware (I think...)

Abandonware doesn't exist. Also, JJ1 is still being sold through Epic Classics. Apart from that, this point has nothing to do with why JJ2 is better than JJ1.

~JJ1 featured 11 character, few secrets, few sprites, and little room for eyecandy

JJ1 had many, many more secrets than JJ2.

~You're a dumb@$$ for even posting this thread

OOOH! BURN! Best. Point. Ever. (Except not.)

~JJ1 requires less memory but more allocation blocks

...what?

~JJ1's harder to memory edit (why you'd even want to I don't know)

I think you've defeated your own point there.

~It's an old Dos Game abandoned and hardly played anymore

~It's an old Dos Game abandoned and hardly played anymore

~It's an old Dos Game abandoned and hardly played anymore

This is a silly point when posted once, let alone three times. It's like saying Final Fantasy VII is the best game ever just because idiotic fanboys like it.

In short, think before you post three million points that are the same and don't make sense.

open jazz sucks,it wont work on my computer at all for some reason, but i found the version for PSP, and most of the powerups and stuff dont work at all, so the only decent way to run JJR1 is DOSbox and that runs perfect for me, just DL D-fend so you can get playin in 2 clicks.

You do have the SDL library, right?

EDIT: And of course it's not perfect. Because it's, y'know, not done.

even with the SDL thing, it didnt work

Jazz Jackrabbit 1s single player campain is better simply because it's challenging.

Jazz 2 is so easy it gets dull to play... sadly.