Why Spaz is better in CTF than Jazz or Lori? I saw that most of good players are playing as Spaz, and after this, yesterday someone said to me to "Zerghun, play as Spaz". When I asked why, he didn't answered..
So if he is better, should I play as Spaz, and learn everything from the begining with him?

cuz he can double jump

Indeed.

I feel like having more control over Spaz. I can move around faster than Lori or Jazz with Spaz,because Spaz can double jump.

Plus it's easier (at least for me) to get a PU with his sidekick.

Sometimes abilities exclusive to Jazz or Lori can shine in certain levels or situations.

Well Zerg,I know how you feel. I played with Jazz too,and no one could convince me Spaz is better. I even used to argue with Fawful about it. I actually changed to Spaz because of my new l33t fur back then,and I liked it and he proved more useful for CTF.

anyway,expect Lori players to drop here and overglorify Lori

No single character is better in every situation, as FireSword pointed out. However, in general, I think Spaz has a few advantages. Spaz's double jump when he's running at full speed is higher than Jazz's uppercut, and double jump often makes it easier to quickly navigate a level, and being able to quickly get to a carrot/power-up/flag can make the difference between winning and losing a game. Jazz's helicopter ears can be great for really long jumps, but they work by slowing down your fall speed, and in JJ2, speed is by far your greatest asset when it comes to dodging enemy fire. Lori can do some neat tricks, but her inability to jump as high as Jazz or Spaz, and the fact that many levels are not designed with her in mind makes her too specific for most people.

So even if Spaz isn't truly "better" than Jazz or Lori, there are some good reasons that he's most popular.

One important aspect of Spaz that people never seem to mention (but use all the time, probably without noticing) is that Spaz can turn around faster than Jazz or Lori by double jumping. I'd go so far as to say that's more useful than higher jumps.

Basically, Jazz and Lori's special moves are sledgehammers made of foam, whereas Spaz' double jump is like a helicopter that shoots homing sharks.

Originally Posted by minmay

One important aspect of Spaz that people never seem to mention (but use all the time, probably without noticing) is that Spaz can turn around faster than Jazz or Lori by double jumping. I'd go so far as to say that's more useful than higher jumps.

Basically, Jazz and Lori's special moves are sledgehammers made of foam, whereas Spaz' double jump is like a helicopter that shoots homing sharks.

I wanted to mention that here.
Either way, turning around and therefore dodging is way and way better with Spaz. That is a massive advantage . Not just the higher jumps or whatever.

Ok I started playing with Spaz in CTF. But is he "better" in battle too?

can`t u see for yourself???

Spaz is for pro's

JJ2 is for pro's

Originally Posted by spaceboy

Spaz is for pro's

So why do we play it? It's not for us. It's for Cpt. and [NC]

Well, I don't really suggest people to use characters, although I'd agree that most levels work better with Spaz. I'm sure there were some great Jazz players back then, but heck I start to think people overglorify Spaz sometimes (yay spaz fanboys will rip my head off), then when people make levels they seem to ignore the existence of people who don't use him very often. I'm not saying he's bad, but I think Lori and Jazz get rather overlooked sometimes. I've always found an experienced Spaz user to play more predictably than a one who can use Jazz/Lori decent (I'm not meaning random Jazz/Lori nubs who hang out on ZA or the server), but that means for them it may be a little more tricky for them to reach high places and dodge stuff (if they use Jazz/Lori I mean). I usually don't get into the situation where I can dodge a bullet as Spaz though. Maybe it's just the way I play. I use Spaz in some levels for some serious games. My words are, play who you're most comfortable with whether it's Spaz, Lori, or Jazz. Actually I've always found it the easiest to sidekick a pu with Lori considering it's the fastest, not to be biased or anything but on an actual fact. I don't really care what ""pros"" say....

*gets tonnes of minus rep on hand for this comment

Originally Posted by Treylina

...when people make levels they seem to ignore the existence of people who don't use him very often.

It depends, sometimes level makers consider that either Jazz, Spaz and Lori may be played in the levels they make, sometimes they don't.

As a matter of fact, Lori is too often forgotten. But for example I can also mention Cloning Jazz by Booman! which explicitly requires Spaz or Get Jazzed by Gus which is too difficult with Spaz because of the pits and which is clearly focused on Jazz...

Originally Posted by WhiteBlaster

As a matter of fact, Lori is too often forgotten. But for example I can also mention Cloning Jazz by Booman! which explicitly requires Spaz or Get Jazzed by Gus which is too difficult with Spaz because of the pits and which is clearly focused on Jazz...

And Jazz Unleashed Demo which is so Jazz biased that even I needed to resign of Spaz usage to beat the second level (not even mentioning level 5 which I consider unbeatable with Spaz at all).

Well, I know I'm drifing a bit off-topic here, but what I meant was MP levels. I haven't played much of a wide selection of SP levels to say so, but Lori is certainly rather forgotten when it comes to SP. I hope my *cough* upcoming project will change that, although it will take several months to create. Ok, I better go further talk about this into the JCS thread so I'll shutup for now.

I will admit that Spaz is probably better in duels.(which is part of why I don't like to play duels) But in 2v2 or 3v3 it is not nearly as important to do fancy duel moves: as, in team games it is more important to understand circumstances and situations to take advantage of them when you can: things like, not everyone has all ammo all the time, ect..
As for most levels being made for spaz, I don't see it. Most ctf levels don't have any important jumps that you have to be Spaz to make: the only significant disadvantage I have playing as Lori rather than Spaz, is that Lori cannot turn around fast like Spaz can.(with his double jump Spaz go fast in one direction then suddenly turn around, thus avoid getting hit.) Because of this, I try to not get in to places where I will have to turn around suddenly or jump in midair to avoid getting hit. I will also note that in ctf, Spaz's sidekick is inferior to Lori's.
Anyway, Treylina, I think maybe nobody will be able to negrep you very much, because they have already done it too much. (Just like I cannot give you any rep because I have already given you too much.) Besides, if you make good posts and they get negreped, that's just too bad.

If you understand and apply the basics of teamplay you will be able to be a good teammate in the sense that you don't mess up the game for your teammate. If you want to contribute to yur team you need to add some power to it, and be able to evade attacking enemies. Especially for the last of with, trick jumps are really important (especially since half of the games are on semi)

Originally Posted by Sir Ementaler

And Jazz Unleashed Demo which is so Jazz biased that even I needed to resign of Spaz usage to beat the second level (not even mentioning level 5 which I consider unbeatable with Spaz at all).

Afaik level 5 is unbeatable with any character, even for the author himself. :P

Besides, I've passed the other 4 levels with Spaz. Didn't feel there would have been much more advantage with Jazz.

Originally Posted by Vivando

Afaik level 5 is unbeatable with any character, even for the author himself. :P

I hoped someone will say this. Unfortunately my PC still isn't good enough to let me record a speedrun of Astroid Town with any serious framerate, and also I can't really find a good screen recording tool, so no proof for you. I, however, tend to pass it from time to time for fun.

Originally Posted by Vivando

Besides, I've passed the other 4 levels with Spaz. Didn't feel there would have been much more advantage with Jazz.

There is, imo. Your opinion varies of mine because you were saving your game there I guess.

...SE, you play too much SP.

Nope, I don't need saves to be able to complete the four levels at least on non-hard difficulty. I feel I might've passed them on hard as well, but not completely sure. Instead I'm pretty sure I wouldn't manage the 4 levels with Jazz without saving. Especially 'Rocky Ride to Nowhere' is much harder because Jazz kinda "slows me down." Hard to explain it better.

The main problem with 'Astroid City' are the bomb crates that have the coins needed for the warp. The bottom level where you have to shoot down the crates and open them in under half a second before they fall down to the pit. The bomb shockwave usually pushes me right into the pit even with Jazz'es uppercut. If I was able to do this, then I could as well finish the level. I don't know though. Maybe I should try more. It was about 5 years ago when I last time played that episode in a serious manner.

Originally Posted by Vivando

Nope, I don't need saves to be able to complete the four levels at least on non-hard difficulty. I feel I might've passed them on hard as well, but not completely sure. Instead I'm pretty sure I wouldn't manage the 4 levels with Jazz without saving. Especially 'Rocky Ride to Nowhere' is much harder because Jazz kinda "slows me down." Hard to explain it better.

Heh, I actually mainly switched to Jazz because of Rocky Ride to Nowhere. But I played this pack relatively a lot of time ago too. Astroid Town was the only level I kept playing after finishing it.

Originally Posted by Vivando

The main problem with 'Astroid City' are the bomb crates that have the coins needed for the warp.

I can't agree. The main problem with Astroid City is being full of bugs. Okay, there are actually about 3 in total, but they're still evil. The first 2 are luck-based not always working savepoints. They aren't much of a problem because turning savepoints on isn't needed to pass the level, but they were annoying when I was still learning the level. The 3rd bug is in the turtle shell part. The last gate just does not always open. This is annoying as hell because when it happens you must practically kill yourself and start from the beginning (or from savepoint, if it wasn't bugged). Taking the fact that there's nothing hard already after that part, so it can be considered the end of the level, you get something damn long, damn hard and with a luck-based ending.

Originally Posted by Vivando

The bottom level where you have to shoot down the crates and open them in under half a second before they fall down to the pit. The bomb shockwave usually pushes me right into the pit even with Jazz'es uppercut. If I was able to do this, then I could as well finish the level. I don't know though. Maybe I should try more. It was about 5 years ago when I last time played that episode in a serious manner.

I sometimes fail at that part too (as well as at the sucker part), but after you find out you actually only need to get one coin from there it stops to look so bad. Don't play it again I like being the only person who beat it. Play, it's fun. Good to know there's one more person who will be eventually able to play my episode if it gets released btw.

Oh, thanks. I actually found out it was possible to get all the coins with Jazz if you timed the crates well. However I wasn't able to do the critical freeze jump anymore without cheats.

And yeah, the level is buggy indeed. I got a bit too frustrated to keep trying for now. But at least I see it's passable at some rate for now.

Looking forward to your episode by the way.

Originally Posted by Vivando

However I wasn't able to do the critical freeze jump anymore without cheats.

Oh, right, people seemed to complain about this a lot. I have no clue why, but perhaps they don't know much enough of the Freeze Enemies event mechanics. The way to do this is holding both shoot and jump button (and right arrow key) all the time and it works. However, it's possible that it somehow depends a bit on the frame rate (didn't test it much, but I recall that passing this varied slightly on my old PC running JJ2 on 30 fps). Basically I think that the more fps the later you get free. Nothing sure though.

Originally Posted by Sir Ementaler

I have no clue why, but perhaps they don't know much enough of the Freeze Enemies event mechanics.

This. Everytime you freeze someone in a JJ2 game they just sit there and wait to unfreeze instead of breaking free.

LOL!

And I thought that section needed luck to pass. It felt far too easy for me to try that. Or then I just forgot. Worked from first time. Thank you!